Hello all. I need help.
First off I have a 4 speed jx syncro.
I have had problems with the gears and bought all the bush kits etc for the linkages. When stripping it out I discovered that the problem was that the rear shift rod was broken so I managed to get a replacement from Aidan. I've now put it all back together and I can't seem to line up the diamond plate properly. The best I can get is as follows.
4th - where it should be and also where 2nd should be
3rd - where it should be and also where 1st should be plus a lot of movement in stick whilst in gear
2nd and 1st - require pushing down a little and having to make sure I don't end up in reverse or G gear.
The question is,is there anything else I could try?
Gear selector alignment
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
I don't like people just posting to advise `look in the WIKI` but the statement is relevant here because it has good pics.
You have a Syncro, but I think your setup would look similar to that in the pics there
( Unless I am corrected, obviously. )
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... hanism_Pt1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... hanism_Pt2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... hanism_Pt3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The following link is specific to adjustments and looks especially useful for you:
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... _mechanism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The process is very well laid out in there. I used the 5sp version for help when I did mine although I ended up winging it more than using skill
.
You would obviously have an extra gear ( G ) than a standard 4 speed, but again, unless someone tells me I am wrong ( which I might be ) I would imagine your linkage setup that goes into the shift housing end may look very similar to these links.
You have a Syncro, but I think your setup would look similar to that in the pics there
( Unless I am corrected, obviously. )
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... hanism_Pt1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... hanism_Pt2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... hanism_Pt3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The following link is specific to adjustments and looks especially useful for you:
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ge ... _mechanism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The process is very well laid out in there. I used the 5sp version for help when I did mine although I ended up winging it more than using skill
.You would obviously have an extra gear ( G ) than a standard 4 speed, but again, unless someone tells me I am wrong ( which I might be ) I would imagine your linkage setup that goes into the shift housing end may look very similar to these links.
'89 1.9 DG
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
I did see that but thought as I hadn't "played around" with the pinch bolt bit or the front shift rod at all then this shouldn't need adjusted. The reason I didn't touch it was due to people saying that one spline out will make all the difference
Re: Gear alignment
I see.
So, when you changed the rear shift rod, you must have had to change it to the joint in the middle with the `splines` on?
In other words, it might be a couple of splines out there?
When I did my 5 speed, I found it far easier to put the gearbox in third at the box, then put the stick into the correct location so that it lined up in the shift housing, then tighten it all up.
Slightly harder for 4 speed as it doesn't have guides like the 5 speed, but you could use 3rd or 4th and do it like that?
Just for clarity, does your shift housing and front linkage look like the photos?
As you have to push down slightly for some gears, it might just be slightly out rotationally at the splines... ?
So, when you changed the rear shift rod, you must have had to change it to the joint in the middle with the `splines` on?
In other words, it might be a couple of splines out there?
When I did my 5 speed, I found it far easier to put the gearbox in third at the box, then put the stick into the correct location so that it lined up in the shift housing, then tighten it all up.
Slightly harder for 4 speed as it doesn't have guides like the 5 speed, but you could use 3rd or 4th and do it like that?
Just for clarity, does your shift housing and front linkage look like the photos?
As you have to push down slightly for some gears, it might just be slightly out rotationally at the splines... ?
'89 1.9 DG
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
Front shift rod is and the box but the diamond plate is below the floor so adjusting is a little tricky. When I replaced rear shift rod did so at the nylon UJ https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/gear-linkage-uj-t3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Gear alignment
Yes, the diamond plate will be below van floor for diesel models.
Now I see how you changed without adjusting splines..!!
Best bet then is to have someone in the van and get them to try and select one of the gears you mention that you have to push down for ( 2nd or first).... Get them to try without pushing down though.
You lie underneath and see what bits make contact in the shift housing, and think for a bit on which way you would have to rotate at the splines to stop that contact.
It sounds like those gears are making contact in the guides on the shift housing when they shouldn't be, which to me does suggest it needs rotating slightly.
It is hard to imagine direction of rotation, so needs trial and error. It also needs rotating far less than you would think.
try one spline at a time.
I know you didn't alter spline position, but it could have moved as little as 1mm when you worked on it - that would be enough to throw it out.
( And there is no way to know the new rear linkage is totally aligned as per old one, especially if it had been snapped / repaired in the past, it could have been adjusted at the splines before to accomodate any imperfections at the repair point... )
Now I see how you changed without adjusting splines..!!
Best bet then is to have someone in the van and get them to try and select one of the gears you mention that you have to push down for ( 2nd or first).... Get them to try without pushing down though.
You lie underneath and see what bits make contact in the shift housing, and think for a bit on which way you would have to rotate at the splines to stop that contact.
It sounds like those gears are making contact in the guides on the shift housing when they shouldn't be, which to me does suggest it needs rotating slightly.
It is hard to imagine direction of rotation, so needs trial and error. It also needs rotating far less than you would think.
try one spline at a time.
I know you didn't alter spline position, but it could have moved as little as 1mm when you worked on it - that would be enough to throw it out.
( And there is no way to know the new rear linkage is totally aligned as per old one, especially if it had been snapped / repaired in the past, it could have been adjusted at the splines before to accomodate any imperfections at the repair point... )
'89 1.9 DG
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
Cheers mate. I'll give it a bash and see how it goes. Do I need to disconnect the linkage at the front to get it to rotate then put bolt back through at front? If it helps the diagnosis, when I removed the bolt at the front of gear linkage it slid out no bother but when I put it back in it was a pain in the derrière and required some persuasion from the stillsons.
Re: Gear alignment
No, I would leave it in Rob.
You need the front linkage connected to the gearstick to replicate exactly how it moves, otherwise you will just have a free moving end at the shift housing end at it make it impossible for you.
Just see which guides the front of the linkage touch in the shift housing when trying to select those problem gears, then have two mole grips underneath the van,
Loosen the bolt by the splines ( UJ joint ) and have one mole grip on shift rod, and one over the `UJ joint` bit.
Then rotate opposing each other VERY slightly. And I do mean VERY slightly
You will see the very slightest rotational movement at the splines gives far more at the shift housing end.
Then try selecting those problem gears again - if still making contact then adjust slightly more.
If you over rotate, you may find you lose other gears, so may need to go back a bit....
The key here is very small adjustments in the order of one spline at a time..
P.S. Make sure you don't adjust the spline joint bit in the horizontal direction.
Doing that will mean the stick is too far forward or backward when in the van. Best mark it on the shift rod so you know how much of the splines are visible.
You need the front linkage connected to the gearstick to replicate exactly how it moves, otherwise you will just have a free moving end at the shift housing end at it make it impossible for you.
Just see which guides the front of the linkage touch in the shift housing when trying to select those problem gears, then have two mole grips underneath the van,
Loosen the bolt by the splines ( UJ joint ) and have one mole grip on shift rod, and one over the `UJ joint` bit.
Then rotate opposing each other VERY slightly. And I do mean VERY slightly
You will see the very slightest rotational movement at the splines gives far more at the shift housing end.
Then try selecting those problem gears again - if still making contact then adjust slightly more.
If you over rotate, you may find you lose other gears, so may need to go back a bit....
The key here is very small adjustments in the order of one spline at a time..
P.S. Make sure you don't adjust the spline joint bit in the horizontal direction.
Doing that will mean the stick is too far forward or backward when in the van. Best mark it on the shift rod so you know how much of the splines are visible.
Last edited by Smiffo on 13 Dec 2016, 21:55, edited 1 time in total.
'89 1.9 DG
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
Cheers. Well wish me luck.
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
On a side note. Does anyone know if the front shift rod of a 4 speed diesel syncro is the same as non syncro or is it like the rear and syncro specific?
Re: Gear alignment
Not sure about the front linkage being the same.
If it was OK before the rear was changed though, I would focus on adjustments first and foremost.
Have you had another look yet Rob?
I'm interested how you get on.
If it was OK before the rear was changed though, I would focus on adjustments first and foremost.
Have you had another look yet Rob?
I'm interested how you get on.
'89 1.9 DG
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
Re: Gear alignment
Not the same part numbers so must be syncro specific.Robjackson wrote:On a side note. Does anyone know if the front shift rod of a 4 speed diesel syncro is the same as non syncro or is it like the rear and syncro specific?
1992 red lle 2.2 subaru 1990 rhd caravelle 2.2 subaru 1986 california import vanagon
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
I emailed the resident gearbox guru Aidan before posting on here. He emailed today and said pretty much the same. I hope he doesn't mind but I'll post his email as he has a method of lining up the rods when releasing the pinch bolt.
hi, obviously without seeing it it's a bit hard to say exactly where the problem lies, but I'd check that here's no excess wear at the front or rear bushes that there's no major wear or damage to the guides under the floor at the bottom of the gearstick and no major play at any of the bolts through the linkage at the bottom of the stick and the UJ and that the cup and ball are nicely mated and lubricated and skirt of boot pulled down then I'd do a set up releasing the pinch bolt slightly to allow the front and rear shafts to rotate relative to each other, check the ball is fully pushed out of the gearbox by the spring inside and that is 3rd and 4th neutral, gearstick to and fro across the gate a few times then over to the right and hold there in 3rd 4th position and lock off the pinch bolt there and check gears should be right, helps to have a helper in the cab.
I did try checking everything today but as it was raining I never released the bolt. The "tooth" that holds it into reverse has been welded at some point and seems a little longer than it should be. Gave it a little grind today but defo need a new one. I remember that I had to straighten out the plate that bolts on to the gearbox as well. Wonder if I shouldn't have.
hi, obviously without seeing it it's a bit hard to say exactly where the problem lies, but I'd check that here's no excess wear at the front or rear bushes that there's no major wear or damage to the guides under the floor at the bottom of the gearstick and no major play at any of the bolts through the linkage at the bottom of the stick and the UJ and that the cup and ball are nicely mated and lubricated and skirt of boot pulled down then I'd do a set up releasing the pinch bolt slightly to allow the front and rear shafts to rotate relative to each other, check the ball is fully pushed out of the gearbox by the spring inside and that is 3rd and 4th neutral, gearstick to and fro across the gate a few times then over to the right and hold there in 3rd 4th position and lock off the pinch bolt there and check gears should be right, helps to have a helper in the cab.
I did try checking everything today but as it was raining I never released the bolt. The "tooth" that holds it into reverse has been welded at some point and seems a little longer than it should be. Gave it a little grind today but defo need a new one. I remember that I had to straighten out the plate that bolts on to the gearbox as well. Wonder if I shouldn't have.
Re: Gear alignment
Aidan certainly knows his stuff.
You can be quite sure everything to check will be in his advice.!
When you say guide has been welded, do you mean a piece welded to it, or the guide welded to the shift housing?
You can be quite sure everything to check will be in his advice.!
When you say guide has been welded, do you mean a piece welded to it, or the guide welded to the shift housing?
'89 1.9 DG
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
“Some people die at 25 years old, and are buried at 75 yrs old” ~ Benjamin Franklin.
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Robjackson
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Re: Gear alignment
I'll try describe this as best I can. At the front of the shift rod there are 2 "horns" that stick up and normally are covered in nylon. The one on the opposite side to the bolted on stop plate looks as if it has snapped off at some point and someone has replaced it using a bit of scrap and the worst weld I've seen. When I stripped everything out the stuff before I straightened it all up thinking I was doing good