Syncro with Scooby Power

Post by **Ian_Fearn** » 17 Oct 2006, 17:37

Whats the thoughts on how well the Syncro transmission will handle Subaru power?

Post by **futbus** » 17 Oct 2006, 17:51

DH put a scooby in his without too much problem altho the box had been rebuilt. Give him a call if you want more info, but he no longer owns the van, but cant remember who has it now.

Post by **clash460** » 18 Oct 2006, 06:56

read this

http://archive.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=12542

Post by **toomanytoys** » 18 Oct 2006, 08:11

Whatever, power you decide to do..
Even stock 2.1, make sure the complete transmission system is in good order, VC good etc..

If upgrading, unless you know the system has been "refreshed" it would be very prudent to go through it and replace the "wear" parts..

even my 1992, 1.9DG, with an indicated 143k km on it, has given trouble, and needs a few parts.. so once my box is refreshed I shall be installingnew CVJ's and a VC, the front dif will get a refresh too.. and I might even splash out in a new prop.. just to make sure all is as good as it can get.. as next year it will get a bigger, more grunty wbx...

Post by **HarryMann** » 18 Oct 2006, 10:56

Whats the thoughts on how well the Syncro transmission will handle Subaru power?

From: https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12402

Some say the T25 gearboxes and the Syncro box in particular have a set upper design power limit well below what you plan to install (2.9 V6). I doubt anyone knows what VW/SDP agreed on as a design point, but it would actually have been a max. torque limit, rather than power. There is obviously an upper limit somewhere, but most failures are fatigue failures rather than ultimate stress type, and as such this can be thought of as a product of load(torque) x time exposed. That is the life will be reduced the more that high loads are placed on it - obvious eh?. Hence a new or very low mileage transaxle unit would be a sensible choice - obvious too

There are a few Syncros in the US (mostly heavy campers) that have had 3.3 Subarus transplanted into them. They don't immediately suffer gearbox failures and I'm pretty sure most have given no trouble at all yet. But these would be in good condition or recently rebuilt with some later mod parts and using a good synthetic oil like Redline MT90. There are stronger gear clusters available, so all in all, a gearbox rebuild program using perfect casings would be something to factor into costs, which could be over £1000 - or you could risk it till it packs up or starts to show the signs, at sometime in the future - then go for a good rebuild.

Maybe the real truth is this:

Heavy vehicle + wide sticky tyres on tarmac + a boy-racer driving style are obviously a serious threat to any box that has a questionmark over it.

Mishandling the syncro box, shock loading it, bump starting in G or Reverse, using 'G' gear indiscriminately on grippy tarmac surfaces, consistently using very high power settings in 1st and 2nd gear, poor changing technique (snatching gears) etc etc would not seem to be conducive to longevity.

The rest of the transmission should be fine if it is all in good nick to start with. Lack of wear in both differentials and all 8 CVJs would be important, to prevent any snatch and shock loading of the transmission. You'd need an uprated clutch of course, but you'd know all about that I'm sure!

So if its a 2.2 N/A Subaru, then put it in and see, if it fails, it would just as likely have failed sometime around that time anyway with VW 2.1 power.

There is so much 'scatter' in metallic component fatigue lives as well as random (a thou here or thou there) tolerances in an original or rebuilt box that firm statements on these sort of things just aren't possible. Previous life and history of the box is a major determinant and usually unknown or unquantifiable.

Post by **bigbluebus** » 18 Oct 2006, 12:19

well my 2 penneth on the subject . .

I'm pretty sure VW tested these vans loaded to the gills with the kind of weight they were likely to carry as a commercial vehicle, under a variety of conditions.

The design tolerances will have been a reasonable amount over and above the tested amounts.

After all, they don't want Joe Cowboy the builder taking his shiny panel van off the forecourt and it's engine / box / suspension going pop as soon as he chucks a few too many bags of cement in the back.

Similarly with brakes, ooo you should upgrade this, should do that. Yeh, fine if your gonna put a Subaru in AND load it to the absolute maximum payload you MAY have a few performance issues

People always said to me the 5 sp box in my Subaru would crumble into a million pieces, but I ran it a good 10,000 miles, and the guy I bought if off had run it 12 months no problems. Ok, Steve Shaw broke it some months later but hey he'd bumped the power up a fair bit . .surviving 2 1/2 years of constant abuse aint bad

don't worry about the maybes, get one fitted, you'll not regret it

Post by **clash460** » 18 Oct 2006, 13:04

you sure that was only two penneth worth Andy

Post by **toomanytoys** » 18 Oct 2006, 13:16

Andy gives good value for money...

Post by **bigbluebus** » 18 Oct 2006, 17:45

it's been said before . . .

Post by **blurb55** » 18 Oct 2006, 19:10

futbus wrote:DH put a scooby in his without too much problem altho the box had been rebuilt. Give him a call if you want more info, but he no longer owns the van, but cant remember who has it now.

Acquired the van last week. Seems more than capable of handling the power on the road, not been offroad yet.
The power delivery from the 2.2 is very impressive, coupled with the 4x4 it corners very well even on ATs.
The longevity remains to be seen as does the failure rate of any parts of the drivetrain.

Will keep everyone posted.

Post by **HarryMann** » 18 Oct 2006, 20:17

not been offroad yet.

Glad about that, if going off-road threatens then a good armful of oppy locky should keep you on the right side of wrong - nasty things those kerbs.

PS. That box has got the Weddle gears, less teeth but stronger. Think they are all made in Auss, whatever the source, a bit noisier though, thats all.

Post by **toomanytoys** » 19 Oct 2006, 07:30

Is that DH's blue one?

The weddle gears are made in Oz.. but you cant buy direct, Weddle have worldwide rights... no way around that...

Post by **blurb55** » 19 Oct 2006, 07:44

Yep it is the the now ex DH blue Velle.
It is being tarted up currenty, all project pics on here:

http://www.georgethebus.co.uk/index.php ... &Itemid=41

mechanicals seem good, but then that is TC's area of obsession. Work now starts on the exterior and interior.

Help and advice very much appreciated (PS ignore the wheels, already hade a long post from Simon B about tyres for the wheels - It will stay on its steel rims).

Cheers, Paul.

Post by **clash460** » 19 Oct 2006, 07:46

thought DH had ordered his from Long Enterprises in USA because thats where he advised me to get my higher 3rd and 4th

Post by **syncroand101** » 19 Oct 2006, 07:58

Yes he did, think you will find that both Weddle and Long Enterprise sell the same uprated gears. Both cut in Oz by Albins - even if you ordered direct from Albins the price is the same anyway...

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