Am I stupid

Post by **dickspanner** » 10 Oct 2006, 09:03

I don't know much about syncros so please exccuse my stupidity with this question.

Is a syncro shell the same as a normal shell on the crewcab and if so I have a mint shell and a cossy motor to go in it, would it be stupid of me to think about putting the syncro running gear on my shell to get 4wd as I am a little concerned about the area I am moving to in france being snowwy and big bhp through rear only will not be pleasent..

If it is possible, would be be a big project to do a straight swap from one vehicle to another and would the running gear take 230bhp

Dickspanner

Post by **HarryMann** » 10 Oct 2006, 09:49

Some might say you would be far better off time-wise using an original Syncro chassis. Obviously you do not want to, having a 'mint' Doka shell/chassis.

It can be done but there is quite a lot to it - you might be best to post a question on Brickyard's Syncro forum where I'm sure Michael Ghia will list all the mods in some detail for you, having done one. You might note that the engine/transaxle sits a bit lower in a Syncro than the 2WD.

Some say the T25 gearboxes and the Syncro box in particular have a set upper design power limit well below what you plan to install. I doubt anyone knows what VW/SDP agreed on as a design point, but it would actually have been a max. torque limit, rather than power. There is obviously an upper limit somewhere, but most failures are fatigue failures rather than ultimate stress type, and as such this can be thought of as a product of load(torque) x time exposed. That is the life will be reduced the more that high loads are placed on it - obvious eh?. Hence a new or very low mileage transaxle unit would be a sensible choice - obvious too

There are a few Syncros (mostly heavy campers), in the US, that have had 3.3 Subarus transplanted into them. They don't immediately suffer gearbox failures and I'm pretty sure most have given no trouble at all yet. But these would be in good condition or recently rebuilt with some later mod parts and using a good synthetic oil like Redline MT90. There are stronger gear clusters available, so all in all, a gearbox rebuild program using perfect casings would be something to factor into costs, which could cost over £1000 - or you could risk it till it packs up at sometime in the future.

Maybe the real truth is this:

Heavy vehicle + wide sticky tyres on tarmac + a boy-racer driving style are obviously a serious threat to any box that has a questionmark over it.

Mishandling the syncro box, shock loading it, bump starting in G or Reverse, using 'G' gear indiscriminately on grippy tarmac surfaces, consistently using very high power settings in 1st and 2nd gear, poor changing technique (snatching gears) etc etc would not seem to be conducive to longevity.

The rest of the transmission should be fine if it is all in good nick to start with. Lack of wear in both differentials and all 8 CVJs would be important, to prevent any snatch and shock loading of the transmission. You'd need an uprated clutch of course, but you'd know all about that I'm sure!

If completed and well engineered, this would be a rare and capable beast, but would think the suspension might neeed a wee bit of tweaking for fast road use - they can be drifted quite nicely with reasonable safety in the wet, a slight initial understeer and then the rear seems to do something a bit weird before the whole thing stabilises quite nicely. Big wide sticky tyres I wouldn't fit though, spoiling the fun as well as loading up the transmission too much.

Post by **Trundler** » 10 Oct 2006, 12:17

Wow, a fascinating and detailed answer!

After which, I think I'll stick with my 2.1DJ and drive for economy/longevity

Post by **toomanytoys** » 10 Oct 2006, 12:33

Have to agree with Clive
If you do do it, I would totally overhaul the sysncro transmission all of it.. makeing sure every component is in 1st class condition.. only way you can ensure a long life.. apart from good oils and respectfull driving style.. not saying you can giv it some, but there is a difference in abusive to respectfull...

If the cost (and it will cost a lot to do it properly..) you decide against it, then fit a LSD... 2wd are poor without a load of weight and winter tyres in horrid conditions..

One thing to consider.. you will never be able to register it in France if you move here... and it may not cause a problem for a year or 2, but you wont get French insurance and UK insurance will not cover for long stays in France... of course unless you lie....
PM me for more details if you have any "France" questions, where you going?

Post by **syncropaddy** » 10 Oct 2006, 13:27

What a fabulous Clive type answer ...... I would have just said 'yes'

Post by **HarryMann** » 10 Oct 2006, 14:00

Did cross my mind Andrew, but discounted it immediately

Post by **Aidan** » 10 Oct 2006, 18:53

Mike Ghia originally had in mind a fast lowered street machine utilising syncro running gear to get the 4wd, but decided that it couldnt readily be done so went for a pretty stock conversion in the end, all beit with interesting engine options, which he still pursues.

Post by **dickspanner** » 10 Oct 2006, 21:39

The conversion is still in infant stages and I just wanted to explore the 4wd option before I purchase the conversion kit from Germany. I popped in the garage tonight and the cossy motor is in bits and looks fantastic for a motor with 190k on it. I will be ready in a couple of weeks and I should of purchased the kit by then.

I undertake crazy conversions all the time and generally end up losing loads of dosh as I replace all wearable componants as I am building the stuff and shotblast all parts and either have them sprayed, painted or powdercoated so the end product is generally mint. eg mini has cost me around 12k and am putting it up for sale next month for 6k, great profit and loss forecast....

I intend to have the full conversion complete by feb for my first trip over to my new house in france. (auveron region)

In relation to insurance, I have been told of a few english companies that now insure cars for use abroad with upto 30days use in the uk. So will investigate that option but we (me and a few pals) are also looking into a traders policy as we all have modified vehicles. 3.5v8 schimitar, 5.7v8chevvy lotus, my mini.

Will give the syncro idea a miss but am interested on lsd idea, any more details on that one?

cheers

dickspanner

Post by **HarryMann** » 10 Oct 2006, 22:49

Well thats a crying shame, after all that woffle above

Still, theres a few wicked 2WD Doka about..

LSDs - very rare.

Look for the codes you are looking for on the various boxes here, in the column anti-slip:-

http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syncro ... _Specs.htm

Think the cab sticker will have that option on it too (someone would confirm or deny that)

Post by **airhead** » 11 Oct 2006, 01:23

Well dickspanner, you obviously have a few quid to throw at these projects. Given that fact, if youre willing to put the money where its needed, the possibilites are almost endless. Its time and ddifficulty that needs to be factored in instead.

Post by **Aidan** » 11 Oct 2006, 16:46

lsd is £1200 plus vat from vw

there was one on ebay.de last month, they come up very occassionally.

Post by **toomanytoys** » 11 Oct 2006, 17:11

Or speak to Quaife........
or Long enterprises...

Post by **syncropaddy** » 14 Oct 2006, 18:52

Go Westy do a positraction diff. Heres the link

http://www.gowesty.com/Merchant2/mercha ... Code=mp-mt

Post by **HarryMann** » 14 Oct 2006, 19:36

Thats the one...

Post by **dickspanner** » 19 Oct 2006, 00:11

I am also consiering a porshe box, anybody know info on these beasts