Original split/charger wiring Joker 3

[Canadark]

Hi all,
I did look for this, found lots of mods but not the original wiring.
1989 Joker 3, The dual pull relay under the drivers seat (LHD) shows signs of melting along with melting of heavy red wire from relay to leisure battery and some scorching of the heavy red wire from starter battery at the relay.
I have a manual for this (in German) but the wiring diagram does not agree with the van. (or other posts I've seen here)
Diagram shows only one 87 not two.
I'm guessing that someone in past has changed things around (chicken scratches in manual and colored tape on wires) so maybe they got something wrong.
So...can someone point me towards a good diagram of original wiring of the BBB, leisure battery, relay, starting battery, mains,etc?
I would like to sort this out. I'm also in the process of changing this van over to 110v from 220v for use in North America. I'm getting a new,different converter/charger to replace the BBB and the other 220v specific bits.

[California Dreamin]

I can confirm the original relay used on this system is a five terminal with TWO number 87's.
One is to the leisure battery the other is to the fridge....

I'm guessing at some point the leisure battery has had a shorted cell and the current flow between the two batteries has exceeded the relays rating (which I believe was just 30 amps)

My advice to you would be to simply uprate this relay to a 4 terminal (70 amp) unit and then join the two number 87's together on the one 87 terminal out.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ON-OFF-Heavy- ... 3f18c0919d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

[Canadark]

Yes, thank you CalDream.
I have seen that mod post here and understand the relay.
My question is the wire locations.
Currently the wires are in these positions:

30-large red wire from Leisure battery
87-medium red/blk wire from BBB
87-large red wire from Start battery
86-small blue from ignition
85-small red/blk from ignition

Is this correct?

Thanks.

[California Dreamin]

Yes I can see where the confusion arises...and to be honest this conflicts with how I thought it was wired but then I suspect that's just because I've never actually studied the original wiring diagrams.
Someone will be along shortly with the proper diagram...However on the face of how yours is wired the BBB charger is on the starter battery side of the relay but we know the BBB has two charge outputs (to charge both leisure and starter batteries) so there must be a second wire possibly going directly to the leisure battery...that's just conjecture of course.

Lets wait to see the diagram...



Martin

[Canadark]

Yes, there is a medium red/yellow wire that I traced back to the BBB attached directly to leisure battery.

I sure wish the Joker wiring diagram in WestfaliaT3.info downloads was clearer. It's better than the German one I have as far as being correct, just can't read. You can see the 5 post relay, but not the numbers or wire designations. Someone needs to rescan that schematic!

My Bentley has the wrong layout and the VAG Service manual that came with the van is different also.

[California Dreamin]

Well 85 & 86 are just the switching contacts so one must be an earth and the other is from the alternator. 30 & both the 87's are just connecting the batteries together (the 87's are internally connected so can be treated as one)

Martin

[JonnyAtlantic]

Here's the wiring diagram.

This is for Euro conversion, is yours a US version, as might be different.

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/%7Ejohng ... nglish.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On my Atlantic

note the terminals 87 and 87 are linked through, even before energising the relay, this is so the on-board charger can push through to charge the starter battery when the engine is stopped.

30 is feed to LEISURE battery (red and thick)
85 is blue wire from alty, which is piggy-backed off to the fridge relay.
86 is THIN red/black wire to earth (dunno why this colour, they must have bought a load of red/black wire )
87 is THICK red/BLACK from the battery charger under seat
87 is charging feed from / to the MAIN starter battery, should be very thick and red/white

[California Dreamin]

So it looks like your existing wiring config is fine....you can swap over connectors going to 85 & 86 but it really makes no difference, these are just energising the relay.
As I said...repair your wiring, fit a heavy duty 4 pin relay and just join the two wires that would have gone to the two 87 terminals.
By a quality Nagares/Durite or other branded relay (the one I linked wasn't branded but just an example)

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p ... ategory/36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Martin

[Canadark]

Thanks everyone,

Yeah, it's easy to forget that the relay is not a one way street. Current can flow both ways and the relay is just a gate between when the engine is running and being connected to mains.

Looks like the thick red wire (30 to leisure battery) will need to be completely replaced. It got so hot as to partly melt the blue wire to itself and the insulation is warped all along it's length! The other just needs new insulator covering the end.

JohnnyAtlantic--that link goes to a (E D I T: better quality scan than the WestfaliaT3.info schematic, Thanks!) ((on closer inspection today I can see it is better than the other one))

Bosch makes a 50a dual pull relay but it's a six week order from the local FLAPS. I'm just gonna use a single pull and double up.

Thanks again!

[Hacksawbob]

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ca ... y_charging" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[California Dreamin]

Bosch makes a 50a dual pull relay but it's a six week order from the local FLAPS. I'm just gonna use a single pull and double up.

Thanks again!

I think the only reason they used a 5 terminal relay was that they couldn't get TWO wires (one very thick) to go into one standard 6.3mm female spade terminal.

There is another option: to use one of the 'Post' type relays and use eyelets on the main switched circuit....that way both of the 87 connectors can have a seperate eyelet (just makes it easier) Also has the benefit of being 100 amps so should be ultra reliable.

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p ... ategory/36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

[Canadark]

Hey Hacksawbob
That is just the type of help I needed!
I missed that diagram when I searched the archive, thanks for posting.


E D I T: Ah..I see why I missed it. It's not listed under "Electrical" I never looked under "Camping interior,cupboards,etc."
Might need to be moved.

[Hacksawbob]

fair comment, I've moved it.