Dangerous thoughts...

[mrhutch]

nicely...

run the Aircooled till you cook it then stick a diesel in it.. lots of learning curve to be head there!!

[highlander]

s'easy

we choose these vehicles because we have a love of the VW thing... there isn't a word to describe it. you don't see such massive following of 20 year old Mercedes/. ./Austin/Bedford etc.. commercial vehicles. some may say they have 'soul', but hey, that's subjective.

you are trying to choose a vehicle and a lot of people have given advice. IMHO you need to work out what you want to use it for and what investment (emotional and financial) you are prepared to spend. if you go the T3/T25 route there is a massive following of great people, but PLEASE EXPECT A LITTLE 'ROUGH' TREATMENT from time to time. Look on the brick yard and vzi, and don't go having a hissy fit because someone has been forthright in their opinion... that's life baby, the bongo forums will treat you kinder..

Fair enough - thanks for having a more reasonable style than Mr Angry of the Highlands. Will take it in good spirit. I have read some interesting posts on the JK site. Seems that Brazilians make passions run high - those who own them annoyed that you guys don't regard them as real VWs. That's the bit I don't understand - some may hate them with a passion, but there clearly is a market for them, and it's abit insulting to all Danbury customers to regard them as some how mentally deficient persons.

As to Mazda Bongos - good try! Not for me though. They are a perfectly good vehicle - if you happen to want one.

You really are not on this planet or just plain arrogant... there is a big difference between being forthright in an opinion and angry!!! maybe you should ask someone to explain that to you.... I will make this very simple for you, maybe this time you might understand it there again you probably will not as you lack the necessary love and passion .. You have some nerve trying to tell passionate vdub lovers who have had years of experience with these vehicles that some crappy wanna be vw rust bucket is better than theres and expect an applause!! you have not got a clue what you are talking about, at least take the time to research the facts before you start mouthing off!! I would never dream of going on the mini forum and telling them that the bmw mini is a mini and its better than the old one its very simply NOT, same with the F o r d forum and the new mustang...Try that If you want an angry reaction.. be warned the explicit language and threats might upset you!!!! if you love the brazilian bays so much why dont you buy one??? setup a forum and call it club95 to whenever they fall apart(quicker than you think) nobody said there is not a market for them its simply a market that does not fit in with classic original Vdubs.... I find the danbury comment very amusing little subaru samba's now thats insulting!!!!!!

[Dartmoor]

s'easy

we choose these vehicles because we have a love of the VW thing... there isn't a word to describe it. you don't see such massive following of 20 year old Mercedes/. ./Austin/Bedford etc.. commercial vehicles. some may say they have 'soul', but hey, that's subjective.

you are trying to choose a vehicle and a lot of people have given advice. IMHO you need to work out what you want to use it for and what investment (emotional and financial) you are prepared to spend. if you go the T3/T25 route there is a massive following of great people, but PLEASE EXPECT A LITTLE 'ROUGH' TREATMENT from time to time. Look on the brick yard and vzi, and don't go having a hissy fit because someone has been forthright in their opinion... that's life baby, the bongo forums will treat you kinder..

Fair enough - thanks for having a more reasonable style than Mr Angry of the Highlands. Will take it in good spirit. I have read some interesting posts on the JK site. Seems that Brazilians make passions run high - those who own them annoyed that you guys don't regard them as real VWs. That's the bit I don't understand - some may hate them with a passion, but there clearly is a market for them, and it's abit insulting to all Danbury customers to regard them as some how mentally deficient persons.

As to Mazda Bongos - good try! Not for me though. They are a perfectly good vehicle - if you happen to want one.

You really are not on this planet or just plain arrogant... there is a big difference between being forthright in an opinion and angry!!! maybe you should ask someone to explain that to you.... I will make this very simple for you, maybe this time you might understand it there again you probably will not as you lack the necessary love and passion .. You have some nerve trying to tell passionate vdub lovers who have had years of experience with these vehicles that some crappy wanna be vw rust bucket is better than theres and expect an applause!! you have not got a clue what you are talking about, at least take the time to research the facts before you start mouthing off!! I would never dream of going on the mini forum and telling them that the bmw mini is a mini and its better than the old one its very simply NOT, same with the F o r d forum and the new mustang...Try that If you want an angry reaction.. be warned the explicit language and threats might upset you!!!! if you love the brazilian bays so much why dont you buy one??? setup a forum and call it club95 to whenever they fall apart(quicker than you think) nobody said there is not a market for them its simply a market that does not fit in with classic original Vdubs.... I find the danbury comment very amusing little subaru samba's now thats insulting!!!!!!

Last reply..I do like VWs. I am not mechanically minded - that's my problem. I never said that a new VW van from Brazil is better, and never would. Its a different proposition in ownership terms. You said the Brazilian vehicles are rubbish - well, I will bear that in mind. My doubts re my T25 are that I know the engine is burning some oil (I have to fill from bottom of dip stick to top about every 100 miles) - and there are no leaks on the driveway. The electrical parts are failing with age. So maybe my problem is that I don't know I can relax knowing the engine is in its twilight period - and is getting a new/reliable replacement engine really that simple?? The speedo has stopped working, and I can't fine a LHD screw in cable - JK say they can't get one at all. The mileometer doesn't work - God knows what the mileage really is. Do I want to spend my spare time keeping it going? That's the real question. Call it lack of passion if you like. I am maybe asking the for the impossible in ownership terms.

[ermie571]

Dartmoor,
Having just dropped my van off at the garage, I have read this through. Boy have you raised a debate here!!

Ok, I personally don't feel that the brazilain bays / Beetles are the "real" thing any more than the new beetle is a beetle. They may have copied the bodyshape, yes. But as vehicles, they have NO history. The log book doesn't say 1970 something (or earlier) and there is no history attached to it. I have had the misfortune of a replacement Aircooled with Brazilian heads...it lasted 13 months. Poor quality metal, apparently. Brazilian parts are know to be of poorer quality....which is why when I offered a GENUINE vw bumper for sale last year, I even had questions from the US making sure it wasn't a brazilian.

a brand new Water cooled bay.....get real. Unless of course its one where some enterprising owner has labourered long and hard to put an engine in the engine bat that really shouldn't be there!! Then, for some magical, mysterious reason that I really cannot explain, its a triumph of engineering, and is celebrated.

As for your list of parts that are wearing out.....tis normal. Second hand, or improvise. Seems to be the motto round here.

This love affair with the old buses is strange. If you are putting up with it, then I would suggest that you are not truly afflicted! If, as you drop it off at the garage, or do a repair, you kick a tyre, call it an mare-bag, cow or other choice words.....but know that if the garage was to ring and say its terminal, tears would be shed, then you are really afflicted (I cried buckets when my first one went on its final journey - I mean real tears, too!) However, I appreciate that not everyone feels the way I do. Those that don't feel like this enjoy them while they are working, and as soon as the repair bills start coming in, they get sold. I don't blame them....we are not all the same.

Enjoy your bus, but if its not for you, go get something else. If you don't love it, maintaining and running it won't be enjoyable.

Take care out there.

Em
x

[Ian Hulley]

a brand new Water cooled bay.....get real.

They would have also laboured long and hard to find somewhere to mount a radiator or is the passenger supposed to hold it to keep warm

Ian

[mrhutch]

no, they just dropped a bay shell on a bongo chassis

actually... thats got me thinking.......

[ermie571]

Ian...you are naughty!!!

And as for you Mr Hutch..... a new hybrid... Welcome the V-Wongo!!

(and the splitty I saw with a radiator was pretty damn impressive!)

[Dartmoor]

no, they just dropped a bay shell on a bongo chassis

actually... thats got me thinking.......

Hmmm...some hypocracy here I fear. What's original about a Subaru engine in a T25? I grant you tho', it is a far superior piece of engineering than the original. Perhaps that's the answer for - turn my T25 into a Subaru under the boot lid!

[phade]

Brick yard says

T1. T = Transporter. 1st generation of the VW Transporter - Split screen 1948-1967 .
T2. T = Transporter. 2nd generation of VW Transporter - Bay window 1967-1979.
T3. T = Transporter. 3rd generation of VW Transporter - Wedge/Brick 1979-1990(2).
T4. T = Transporter. 4th generation of VW Transporter - Eurovan 1990-2003.
T5. T = Transporter. 5th generation of VW Transporter 2003 to present.

a slight correction to that list:-

T2 = 2nd Generation Transporter (Europe 1968-1979, Brazil Aircooled 197?-2006, Brazil watercooled 2007-present, South Africa ?-1996)
T3 = 3rd Generation Transporter (Europe 1979-1992, South Africa 1979-2003)

There were also splitties (type 2 T1) built in Brazil during the '70s too.

[highlander]

To be precise: Print it off and take it to the toilet

T1
German production stopped after the 1967 model year; however, the T1 still was made in Brazil until 1975, when it was modified with a 1968-79 T2-style front end and big 1972-vintage taillights into the so-called "T1.5" and produced until 1996. The Brazilian T1s were not identical to the last German models (the T1.5 was locally produced in Brazil using the 1950s and 1960s-era stamping dies to cut down on retooling, alongside the Beetle/Fusca, where the pre-1965 body style was retained)

T2
T2 1972 T2a Volkswagen Bus
Production 1968-1979 (US and Germany)
1968-1991 (Mexico)
1976-present (Brazil)
Assembly São Bernardo do Campo, Brazil
Hanover, Germany
Puebla, Puebla, Mexico
Engine(s) 1.6L 48 hp H4
1.6L 50 hp H4
1.7L 66 hp H4
1.8L 68 hp H4
2.0L 70 hp H4
Transmission(s) 4-speed manual
3-speed automatic
Wheelbase 2400 mm (94.5 in)
Length 4505 mm (177.4 in)
Width 2040 mm (80.3 in)
Height 1720 mm (67.7 in)
1979 T2 "Silverfish" last-edition bus. These were a limited edition model to mark the final production of T2 models in Europe

In 1968, the second generation of the Type 2 was introduced. It was built in Germany until 1979. In Mexico, the Volkswagen Combi and Panel were produced from 1970 to 1994. The Brazilian VW plant has produced the Kombi since the 50s until today. Models before 1971 are often called the T2a, while models after 1972 are called the T2b.

This second-generation Type 2 lost its distinctive split front windshield, and was slightly larger and considerably heavier than its predecessor. Its common nicknames are Breadloaf and Bay-window, or Loaf and Bay for short.[2] [3] At 1.6 L and 48 DIN hp (35 kW), the engine was also slightly larger. The new model also did away with the swing axle rear suspension and transfer boxes previously used to raise ride height. Instead, half-shaft axles fitted with CV joints raised ride height without the wild changes in camber of the Beetle-based swing axle suspension. The updated Bus transaxle is usually sought after by off-road racers using air-cooled VW components.

The T2b was introduced by way of gradual change over three years. The 1971 Type 2 featured a new, 1.6 L engine with dual intake ports on each cylinder head and was rated at 50 DIN hp (37 kW). An important change came with the introduction of front disc brakes and new wheels with brake ventilation holes and flatter hubcaps. 1972's most prominent change was a bigger engine compartment to fit the larger 1.7 to 2.0 L engines from the VW Type 4, and a redesigned rear end which eliminated the removable rear apron. The air inlets were also enlarged to accommodate the increased cooling air needs of the larger engines.

This all-new, larger engine is commonly called the Type 4 engine as opposed to the previous Type 1 engine first introduced in the Type 1 Beetle. This engine was called "Type 4" because it was originally designed for the Type 4 (411 and 412) automobiles. They used the "Type 1" engine from the Beetle with minor modifications such as rear mount provisions and different cooling shroud arrangements. The "Type 3 so called pancake" 1500 and later 1600 cc engines used in Type 3 notchback, fastback and squareback cars, plus the Type 34 Karmann Ghia, were never used in Type 2 vans or buses. The pancake nickname came from its low overall height due to mounting the cooling fan on the end of the crankshaft, a technique later employed for the Type 4 engines. European vans stuck with the upright fan Type 1 1600 engine even after the Type 4 motor became standard for US Type 2 export models.

In the Type 2, the VW Type 4 engine was an option for the 1972 model year onward. This engine was standard in models destined for the US and Canada. Only with the Type 4 engine did an automatic transmission become available for the first time in the 1973 model year. Both engines displaced 1.7 L, rated at 66 DIN hp (49 kW) with the manual transmission and 62 DIN hp (46 kW) with the automatic. The Type 4 engine was enlarged to 1.8 L and 68 DIN hp (50 kW) for the 1974 model year and again to 2.0 L and 70 DIN hp (52 kW) for the 1976 model year. The 1978 2.0 L now featured hydraulic lifters, eliminating the need to periodically adjust the valves as on earlier models. The 1975 and later U.S. model years received Bosch L-Jetronic electronic fuel injection as standard equipment; 1978 was the first year for electronic ignition, utilizing a hall effect sensor and digital controller, eliminating maintenance-requiring breaker points. As with all Transporter engines, the focus in development was not on power, but on low-end torque. The Type 4 engines were considerably more robust and durable than the Type 1 engines, particularly in transporter service.
Late 1970s T2b Ambulance

The year 1973 also saw the most noticeable exterior changes. The front turn indicators were squared off from the previous version and set higher in the front valance, above the headlights. This model year also brought new square-profiled bumpers, which became standard until the end of the T2 in 1979. Crash safety improved greatly with this change due to a compressible structure behind the front bumper. This meant that the T2b was capable of meeting US safety standards for passenger cars of the time, though being vans they were not required to. The only thing that shrunk on the new model, or so it seemed, was the large and distinctive "VW" emblem on the front of the early model.

Later model changes were primarily under the skin. By 1974, the T2 had gained its final shape. Very late in the T2's design life, during the late 1970s, the first prototypes of Type 2 vans with four wheel drive were built and tested.

The T2c, so called since it got a slightly raised roof " by about 10 cm " in the early 1990s, was built for the South American and Central American markets.

Since 1995, the T2c has been built in Brazil with air-cooled engines for the Brazilian market and with the water-cooled 1.8 L 4 cyl. inline 90 bhp fuel injected engine for the Mexican market, the latter easily identified by their large, black-coloured, front-mounted radiators. Since production of the original Beetle was halted in late 2003 as a 2004 model, the T2 remained the only Volkswagen model with the traditional air-cooled, rear-mounted boxer engine when the Brazilian model shifted to water-cooled on December 23, 2005. There was a water-cooled Diesel version of the T2, which was manufactured from 1981 to 1985 in Brazil.

The shift to water-cooled engines is in response to Brazil's emission laws which go into effect for 2006 and beyond. The new water-cooled engine will run on petrol as well as alcohol, which costs about 50% less than ordinary fuel in Brazil. The engine is an EA-111 1.4 8v Total Flex. 1390 cc, 78 hp (58 kW) on petrol, and 80 hp (60 kW) when run on ethanol.

Volkswagen Combi, Panel and Caravelle in Mexico

The T2 production began in 1970 at the Puebla assembly factory. It was offered as the 9 passenger version called theVolkswagen Combi and the cargo van called the Volkswagen Panel. Both variants were fitted with the 1.5 L Aircooled boxer engine and 4 speed manual gearbox. In 1974, the 1.6 L 44 bhp boxer engine replaced the 1.5 previous one, and production continued this way up to 1987. This year the watercooled 1.8 L inline 4 cyl. 85 bhp engine replaced the aricooled 1.6 L. This new model is recognizable by its black grille, bumpers and moldings. The following year, a luxury variant: The Volkswagen Caravelle made its debut in mexican market to compete with the new Nissan Ichi Van, which was available in cargo, passenger and luxury versions. The main differences between the Caravelle and Combi are the velour upholstery, the Caravelle was sold as a 8 passenger version while the Combi was available as a 9 passenger version. The Caravelle was only painted in metallic colors, while the Combi was only available in white. The Caravelle was fitted with an AM/FM stereo cassette sound system, velour upholstery, reading lights, mid and rear headrests, and wheel covers from the european T25 model. In 1989, the 10 cm increasedly high roof made its debut in all variants, and the Combi began to offered in 8 or 9 passenger variants. In 1991, since mexican anti-pollution regulations required a 3 way catalytic converter, a Digifant fuel injection system replaced the previous carburator. The three variants continued without relevant changes until 1994. For 1995, the production ended in Mexico, and the Panel and Combi began to be imported from Brazil with the same characteristics. The Caravelle was discontinued. In 2002, the Combi/Panel was replaced by the T4 EuroVan pasajeros and EuroVan Carga (passenger and cargo van in long wheelbase version, 5 cyl. inline 2.5 L 115 bhp and 5 sp. manual gearbox) imported from Germany.


T3

The T3, known as the T25 in Britain and Ireland, and Vanagon in Canada and the US, was built from 1979 to 1991 (or 1992 if one includes the Syncro) and was the third distinct generation of the Type 2. It featured an all-new mechanical design that matched the T2 in length and height, but was wider by 12 cm and considerably heavier. Additional interior space was created by lowering the engine compartment; the rear door is 75% larger than the T2's. The suspension and almost all mechanical components were completely changed, and frontal crash protection was greatly increased. The body was considerably squared-off, though retaining the overall impression of previous versions. Body variants remained the same as before.

Until 1982, the T3 was available with the same air-cooled engines as the T2. Starting in 1981, water-cooled diesel engines were available options and for 1984, water-cooled gasoline boxer engines replaced the previous air-cooled ones.

From 1985, the T3 Syncro represented the first production Type 2 with four-wheel-drive. The Syncro drive system was full-time four-wheel drive, with drive to the front axle controlled by a viscous coupling that delivered power when required. European Syncros were normally fitted with front and rear pneumatically operated differential locks to improve traction. These were not normally fitted to US-spec Vanagons due to fears over product liability.
Late 1980s T3 Caravelle Syncro

Flat-4 engine size and performance grew considerably over the T25's production run, from the 1.6 L, 50 DIN hp (37 kW) and 2.0 L, 70 DIN hp (52 kW) air-cooled engines to 1.9 L water-cooled powerplants rated at 60 DIN hp (44 kW) or 78 DIN hp (57 kW) to the top-of the line 2.1 L, 112 DIN hp (82 kW) (95 hp for vans with catalytic converters) fuel-injected version. Likewise, the diesel engine grew to 1.9 L and 65 DIN hp (48 kW). There was a turbodiesel option, but only in 1.6 L, 70 DIN hp (52 kW) trim. The 1.9 L turbodiesel upgrade was not available until the introduction of the T4.

In its home market, the T3 was replaced by the T4 for the 1990 model year, but some Syncro models and vehicles for Deutsche Post and the German military continued to be produced in Graz, Austria until 1992. The last German-built T3s were the very sought-after "Limited Last Edition" models of which 2,500 were built.

Meanwhile, the T3 was still being built in South Africa, with a slightly modified body (larger windows, different ventilation, less room above the engine), fuel-injected four and five-cylinder inline engines and new equipment packages. South African T3 production was halted in 2002.

[Ian Hulley]

Now some people just have too much time on their hands

Ian

[asahartz]

I think there is something of an issue with parts availability for the T25 though, with VW's 15-year obsolescence policy. Coolant hoses, for one, are already known to be unavailable, and as yet nobody seems to have taken the jump into getting them remanufactured. Yet such things can be viable, as I know from having been a member of a very low-volume classic car club (Austin A40 Farina - yes, a lot were made but relatively few survive!). The club had a number of NLA parts remanufactured, and while these were not cheap, they were affordable and allowed us to keep the cars on the road. Small production runs of certain parts can be done for specialist firms like Brickwerks & JK or by an owners club (though that may need us all to unite under one banner and part with a few beer tokens!) The DIY alternative is to get creative with repairs, though having looked closely at the DG's hoses, it will take quite some ingenuity to substitute those!

Me, I've gone the alternative route, fitting an engine that, although is at least ten years older than the van, has substantial aftermarket support and is easy to fix. Rover 3.5.

[highlander]

Now some people just have too much time on their hands

Ian

Ctrl C >>>>>> Ctrl V 2 seconds data taken from my folder for smart arses please please nobody take offence

[Dartmoor]

Now some people just have too much time on their hands

Ian

Ctrl C >>>>>> Ctrl V 2 seconds data taken from my folder for smart arses please please nobody take offence

Haha - I was amused though that you included Brazilian manufacture in the history of VW!

[highlander]

Now some people just have too much time on their hands

Ian

Ctrl C >>>>>> Ctrl V 2 seconds data taken from my folder for smart arses please please nobody take offence

Haha - I was amused though that you included Brazilian manufacture in the history of VW!

i didnt write it and its still part of the history you dimwit!!! now sod off with your small minded crap!!!! some people just dont get it!!!