Went to go out in the van today, turned the key and 'click' from under the left-hand side of the dashboard. Took out a grey box relay type thing as shown in the pictures below, turned the key again and no click. So I reckon in my own mind that I've solved the problem why my van won't start. Do you reckon that sounds about right?
Can anyone tell me what the following is please? what it does? and anything else you think I may need to know. I'll be going over to Mill Auto tomorrow to hopefully replace it -
The bit in the picture is a relay. It's basically a electrically operated switch. The fact it's clicking probably means it's working. The problem is probably with what the relay is trying to switch. If it's a relay from the ignition circuit the problem will be the starter / solenoid. It could be a "flat" battery (lack of current) or a dirty earth (too high a resistance for the current to flow). There are loads of posts about fixing dirty earths if you search for them.
2ltr Aircooled CU with twin Solex's & originally a 009 dizzie, but now back to standard.
As he said^^^^^ relays do make a clicking sound (just the one time) when they operate....is the relay buzzing/clicking several times? this would only prove there is a fault but not necessarily with the relay.
Poor connections, bad earths, flat battery, faulty ignition switch...the list goes on.
Luckily for you this is a common 4 pole 40amp relay so even if replaced it shouldn't cost more than a fiver.
At a guess (fuel pump relay?)
The first time I turned the key today the engine fired then died...it always takes at least two turns of the key before it fires up and stays fired-up.
Just the one click from the relay when the key is turned.
Battery is fully charged...I always disconnect the leads when parked up. Just tested it and it reads 12.97v
The fuel pump makes a ticking sound when the key is in position 2 which I've always had and so I don't think it's that.
So I should look at the starter motor / solenoid and earth leads? I will do that first thing tomorrow.
In saying that though I had a quick poke around under the van with a screw driver and there were sparks when I touched the end of the solenoid...so there must be power getting to the starter motor / solenoid. If there was a faulty corroded earth strap would that happen...would there be a spark from the solenoid when both terminals were touched?
Just a bit worried as I have to get this sorted before 3pm tomorrow in order to pick my son up from school!!!
avant-garde wrote:
The first time I turned the key today the engine fired then died...it always takes at least two turns of the key before it fires up and stays fired-up.
I am finding it dificult to diagnose based on your description but from what I can gather it doesn't start first 'crank' of the starter (dies) but on the second attempt runs.....well that doesn't sound too serious to me.
How fast does it crank
When it stalls does it just struggle to idle then stall?
Are you saying it cranks but does not fire at all on the first time?
When was the last time it had a service? are the plugs, leads and cap in good condition.
Sorry if I'm being a bit vague. Okay up until today it would take two turns of the key for the engine to fire up and stay running.
I have twin Dellorto carbs with no choke so that's how it has always been...fires up on 2nd go.
Today I turned the key for the first time...it fired up as usual for about a second then died as usual. I turned the key again after pressing the gas pedal a few times and all that happened then was the relay click.
What I'm going to do is order a new starter motor from VW Heritage along with a new earth strap.
All I need to do now is find some articles on here about replacing it and also the brass bush.
It was in the garage about a month ago...I had the cylinder heads off and I had the valve guides replaced as the bus wasn't pulling - no 3 cylinder had 0 compression!
If it was me I wouldn't go rushing into buying a new starter motor until I'd checked & cleaned all the earth straps, and done the same to the connections on the starter motor. If that "cheap" fix didn't work I'd think about a starter motor. If you do get a new starter I think that one of the mounting bolts / nuts is un-done from the engine bay side and the other from reaching through the wheel arch or under the van. A good torch makes the job a lot easier
2ltr Aircooled CU with twin Solex's & originally a 009 dizzie, but now back to standard.
Based on the added information I would be very inclined to check the spade connection to the solenoid (on the starter) just about the most common fault that would cause your particular symptom.
Tipically the terminal will be loose, or the wire will be rotten going to the terminal. If you have enough wire and the terminal is suspect then cut 2cm from the terminal bare 1cm and crimp on a new terminal (use proper crimping pliers for a good electrical contact).
Of course check your battery terminals and the earth lead to the nose of the gearbox...remember a petrol starter will draw between 120 - 150amps whilst cranking so a good connection is simply not good enough in electrical terms..connections have to be faultless, tight and cables sound without any corrosion or broken braid.
Martin
Last edited by California Dreamin on 19 Feb 2012, 23:28, edited 1 time in total.
Okay, I've cleaned all the connections, earth gearbox strap etc and still no joy. Just the click of the relay is heard.
I read in the Haynes manual that if my lights are on when I turn the key if they dim then there is power getting to the starter motor. I couldn't see the headlights but the lights on my instrument panel dimmed when the lights were on when the key was turned.
So from that I guess that there is power getting to the starter motor - just not turning it.
I'm starting to think that it's a new starter motor.
I'll pop down to my garage and see what they think...I'll keep you posted.
OK...at this point it's time to check your switch feed to that spade we were talking about (you'll have to get someone operating the switch whilst you check the feed at this terminal)
Another possibility is the copper braided wire that goes between the solenoid and starter body (these just turn to dust) and you only end up with half the amound of strands taking the current.
To be honest it might be just as easy to remove the starter motor at this point which will enable you to properly see everything and have it bench tested if needs be by your local starter/alternator repair shop.
Whilst I was under the bus I took the copper braided wire that goes between the solenoid and starter body and cleaned that up.
So yes I agree...either the relay that is clicking is faulty or new starter motor is needed. I think it's going to be a starter motor personally.
I've just been down my local garage and they are going to tow it down tomorrow and do all the checks again. They want to be certain that it is indeed the starter motor before I go ahead and order a new one.
"local starter/alternator repair shops" don't exist down here in Cornwall
Thanks again for all your help and advice...I'll let you know what the garage says.
The Starter Motor & Alternator Company 190, Exeter Street, Plymouth , Devon , PL4 0NQ Not quite Cornwall, but this is where I got my "new" starter. I think it was less than £60.
Exact same thing happened to me yesterday. It was the starter motor. Got a friend to tap it with a hammer and I started it on the 3rd attempt. Got it home and it started 1st time this morning. Left work tonight and same thing, just a click. Got a mate to tap it and it started 2nd time. I've ordered a new starter motor for £54 and will fit myself. Only 3 bolts and a few wires. Haynes says it's very easy to do.
Thanks BOXY for that research. I really appreciate that...I'll contact them tomorrow and see if they can repair for less than £101 which is the cost of a new one from VW Heritage.
If you don't mind me asking...What did you type into Google to find them?
Hi Andrew can I ask you where you ordered your new starter motor from please? £54 is a good price!!
Thanks BOXY for that research. I really appreciate that...I'll contact them tomorrow and see if they can repair for less than £101 which is the cost of a new one from VW Heritage.