Did you see?

[Simon Baxter]

Tales from the national parks?
BBC4 late sunday night.
It's on iplayer if you missed it.
If you have iplayer I suggest you have a watch, very intersting documentary about the peak district national park and BOATS.
Mixed emotions about it really, I can totally understand why Chapel Gate is shut, place looks like a ' kin bombsite!
Glimpse of a syncro about 30 mins in.

[Mick & Tracey]

Yeah, saw it and agree mixed feelings about it. Thought the Park rangers and police were doing a good job trying to keep a balance for all. Cringed at some of the off roaders with their tape measures itching to get the chain saw out to cut back the hedges to make the lane safer. The bikers who stopped seemed responsible but then another group of bikers apparently ran over the old ladies foot which wasn't good though we didn't see what happened.

Problem seems to be too many people in 4x4s and trail bikes nowadays with a few showing no respect for the countryside and going too fast / churning it all up - see those chaps in the snow? Can't see this ending well for off roaders - only a matter of time before we only have pay & play sites.

Years ago we had same problem where I grew up with horses churning up footpaths. Eventually they got forced onto bridleways (no one cared about path classifications in those days) which stopped the problem til mountain bikes conflicted with the horses. By then I was happily greenlaning and riding my bike on trails that no-one knew - all changed now when I go back there 20 yrs on it's full of non-locals who don't respect the area. The hypocrite in me says keep the lanes for the locals who will respect them better, except let me back cos I used to live nearby.

[syncrosimon]

whoops

[syncrosimon]

What walkers forget is that when they are walking on a By-way or a BOAT it is open to all traffic same as a tarmac road. When walking on a road you are aware of passing motorist and keep to the right and dont stand in the middle. There are so many footpaths that I have no sympathy for the walkers. The ratio of footpaths to unpaved roads is massive, I think it is less than 5%, so just go somewhere else ffs.

I however do agree with restrictions that prevent lanes becoming absolute quagmires and dont really believe in mud terrain tyres where you are tempted to tackle places which are better left alone.

If a vehicle right of way is too difficult to pass then writing to the council is the way forward.

Here in Devon this is the Trail Riders Fellowships advice on what to do if a lane is blocked, and that would also mean un-drivable.


What do I do when I find a lane obstructed?
You can legally remove an obstruction by hand in order to get by but you must only move enough to do so and replace it when you have passed through e.g. if a lane near a farm has a pole across then slide it out and put it back afterwards.


" If the lane is blocked by brambles then knock them aside to get through. You can only remove branches in order to proceed. The main rule is that you are not allowed to set out especially to clear the lane unless by prior permission and insurance from Devon County Council and Parish.


In case of difficulty like a fallen tree that is too heavy to move, or a deliberate blockage, report the obstruction in writing (a letter can be sent attached to an email to save paper and postage!) to the Public Rights of Way team who are responsible for unsurfaced UCRs and BOATs.

An extra benefit of doing this is that any written response will be confirmation that DCC accept that it is a County responsibility is further proof of our rights on that lane. "

Further information here. http://www.trfdevon.org.uk/blocked.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Simon.

[Simon Baxter]

For the lazy amongst you....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... _District/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chapel Gate is a mess and obviously getting wrecked by people driving around the bad bits which was making matters worse, I thing the 4x4 owners were a bit daft to persue that IMHO, they would have looked better and saved a bit of face to say they agreed, would of made them seem a little more responsible.

[Mick & Tracey]

Sensible advice from Simon and the TRF.

However too many motorised users want the challenge of a poor condition lane and don't want it to be a straight forward unsurfaced byway. They also want to use their shovels, axes and recovery gear in some sort of pseudo macho pioneering activity rather than just reporting the obstruction / damage to the local highways dept.

Too many of the general public are not made aware of what a BOAT or by way is. I don't think it's necessarily the fault of walkers - they simply haven't been officially told what the position is and often only get told by offroaders which only aggravates the sense of "them and us".

However, if councils start publicising the legal position, they run the risk of having to maintain loads more lanes, some may do it and but many might just decide to find ways to close them.

[Simon Baxter]

Does it look like a syncro to anyone else? about 30 mins in?

PeakDistrict.JPG

[alewing]

Eagle eyes!
yes, white syncro....for a split second...as the landrover is driving through, being filmed

[dash]

Chapel Gate is a mess and obviously getting wrecked by people driving around the bad bits which was making matters worse, I thing the 4x4 owners were a bit daft to persue that IMHO, they would have looked better and saved a bit of face to say they agreed, would of made them seem a little more responsible.

I don't think anyone's seriously denied that the state of Chapel Gate was a problem, that sections of it need repairing, and that measures need to be taken to discourage people from deviating from the track.
While PDNPA were conducting the public consultation into the 'experimental' closure, Chapel Gate was closed, independently, by Derbyshire County Council, in order to carry out repairs to the surface (which they should have done long before, under their obligations as the local highways authority). So far so good, and if they've done the job properly, motorised use of Chapel Gate should now be sustainable. I don't think anyone sensible would have objected to this closure.

PDNPA then decided to ban motorised use for another 18 months on an 'experimental' basis - beginning from the point DCC finished the repairs. PDNPA are unwilling or unable to explain the purpose or methodology of this 'experiment' - and that's the worrying part.

An optimist might expect them to monitor the new surface for 18 months without motorised traffic, then reopen it for another 18 months and continue to monitor whether any problems reappear with the motor vehicles.

I find it hard to be that optimistic, and suspect that they'll just say "Isn't it much nicer now than it was two years ago, we'll leave it closed".

[syncrosimon]

However, if councils start publicising the legal position, they run the risk of having to maintain loads more lanes, some may do it and but many might just decide to find ways to close them.

We are lucky here in devon as the TRF has a very good working relationship with the council via our rights of way officer. Each year the Parish Councils have a meeting about issues around Rights Of Way, we get the heads up and use these meetings as a way of discussing problems.

Had the TRF attended that meeting about the lane used by walkers in the village they would have put forward a much better case. If that lane were tarmaced then the council would put a footpath pavement in, but just because it has a gravel surface the walkers think they can walk up and down the middle.

Between the wars when most of the country lanes were tarmaced for the first time the contractors had to decide which lanes they prioritise, the fact that some have not been hard surfaced is just a matter of the choices made by the foreman long ago.

The villagers need to get together with the woodland trust or similar and aquire a bit of land to walk their dogs on, and get of the road!!

[syncrosimon]

The pretty little villages all over the country are full of middle class people with time on their hands to meddle in matters that dont, if truth be told, concern them. The anti motor vehicle brigade are effectively being racist against a lawful minority. (anyway thats what someone told me)

Did anyone see the program about Honister Slate mine in the Lake District, just a man wanting to bring life into the stagnant National Park, creating jobs, and attracting people from all walks of life. He was refused planning for an excellent Aerial Runway and Via Ferrata. He unfortunately died when he crashed his helicopter.

People want to take a snapshot in history of how the national parks should be, and then freeze it in time. I am more progressive and think the parks should be places where people live and work, not just where you have a second home.

[Simon Baxter]

Eagle eyes!
yes, white syncro....for a split second...as the landrover is driving through, being filmed

Eyes like a sh!t house rat...

[syncrosimon]

Another perspective about Chapel Gate, from mountain bikers who are upset that a wild track has been turned into an ugly eye sore. There are conflicting reports as to whether the re-surfacing is the right thing to do.

http://monkeyspoon.com/tracks/track-chapel-gate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

getting it right is difficult.

More here from the park authority

http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/looking-after/vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dash]

Another perspective about Chapel Gate, from mountain bikers who are upset that a wild track has been turned into an ugly eye sore. There are conflicting reports as to whether the re-surfacing is the right thing to do.

I've seen the same said about Walna Scar in the Lake District now that it's been downgraded and resurfaced. Funny how the antis always seem to claim that all cyclists are on their side.

[HarryMann]

The answer is for clubs & groups to drive these more sensitive lanes by licence... much as in some other countries. They don't have to cost anything, but the rigour of agreeing a day and date and a time means there will be responsibility and answerability if there are questions on route, behaviour, damage etc.

Easy... so easy, as usual, that UK Govt Ministers and Officals can't see the wood for the trees. Like fox hunting, spend 9 months ramming that through, while 5 million illegals enter through porous borders, then after they're out of Govt. say that they then think that FoxH legislation was a mistake...