Where to cut old metal to let in new...

[waltraud]

Having decided to get a good rust free O/S door and with panels to fix new lowrer section to sliding door i've got to repair a rusty edge just left of the petrol filler area see pics. I also have a new lower B post outer section and inner strengthening to sort out at same time. I have a 'new' rerpro o/s front wheelarch outser section from Gunzl but am not inclined to fit it all as most of my front arch is very solid. It has clearly had the rear lower section of the arch repaired at some point and i have previously wlded a new section to the outside of the lower B post but this ws just a quick fix for MOT and not very strong.
The pics below show the rust I'm looking to fix so I'm guessing it would make most sense to cut accross the fillwer hole recess prhap[s diagonally and whilst the old bit is off I can do the inner and outser B post and then finally attach a new 'cut' from the repair panel to the lower o/s front arach- hiope that makes some sense. Any tips on where and how best to join apreciated. Finally, if I look down the B post from top to borom the near side one seems flush and paralell with the sides of the van whilst the O/S B post next to the fuel inlet appears to 'twist' i.e. is sits at a slight angle to the bodywork- is this normal or weird- see pics again. cheers.

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[jimpainter]

The twist in the panels just looks like the arch has been replaced, either not straight or has been pulled out somehow. It should be flush. As for where to cut etc, your better off cleaning up around the area and see what appears after that and go from there.
jim

[waltraud]

Thask Jim, most of thre arch is original unless its an imeccably neat and tidy repair but i doubt it, the section that was renewed poorly is from just below the filler from B post accross to the edge of the outer arch.....can't quite understand how its twisted but looking down the side of the B post as I said it does seem that the B post outer skin curves slightly inwards towards the filler- there'd have to be some real forces at play to twist the whole panel and presumably some evidence of distortion but this 'bulging' of the wing is the only weird thing. Will paint stripper it and have a look at what's below. If it's all decent I'm plannignt o just cut out the rotten bit and the bottom of the rear of th arch so i can get to the base of the inner B post- just poked a scredriver up inside the front edge of the jacking point where I welded up the other side. I'm starting to feel that my initial sense of a T25 as more solid was no true and it's beginning to feel like my old 71 bay!! Getting a bit despondent- hopefully only until next day off for some serious welding!

[New Kentish Campers]

The arch on my van was similar and I too thought of just putting a piece in but after i had a very close look around the arch, I could see more rust beginning on the inside where the vw sealer had begun to shrink and had allowed water to lay between the sealer and the metal work. There's a few pictures of this on my resto.thread so you can see what I mean.

So, I cut the lot off and fitted it all. A bit more work, but at least you know all the metal is sound.

[waltraud]

Thanks Kentish, yes, had thought about this as well but the new panel is nothing like as good/thick as the old one (obviously) with unsightly stretch marks- and although I can weld ok i'm no panel beater or skilled engineer. I think i'll have to see what's there and also consider that the B post repair mighjt be earlier with no wing in place. If I fit the wing I was planning to drill holes through original panel at seam/edge and the weld through 'underneath' the new panel which i will lay over the seam- sound OK? Otherwise i'm thnking there would be more finishing if I drill holes in new panel, fit over old edge and spot along from the outside. I'll see how you and others have approached this.

[Plasticman]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, well I would advise against cutting diagonaly through the filler aperature as you will have an evil job making good the join and also the plastic filler shroud is quite picky about its suroundings.lol
get it stripped as you plan and look from there, I agree the pattern stuff is thinner than an offering in a soup kitchen.
straight cut 1"under the filler hole then joddle asnd puddle or whichever your happy doing , if above then cut old of just inside the door reccess and lay new over top of this with a short vertical join in front of filler aperature if that makes sense.
As said It looks like the work done on the arch is the cause of the looking out of line thing....

all good work lets see it stripped please
mike

[waltraud]

Ahh i see a bit clearer i think, if using the new panel (i'm geting tempted) then as well as holes into the top seam do you need to weld along the actual seam? I'm half tempted to 'spot' through the holes and then run some building adhesive along the seam and smooth it but i'm sure that's not propr at all......wish work was not so demanding and time consuming. Thanks for your inavluable advice, hope to get some more time on Waltraud soon. Tim

[Plasticman]

I take it you mean the seam between the arch panal and the b post? then yes you do . but dead easy as you have the arch out of the way, youve made good the b post inner and outer, so drill a few holes in the rear flange of the arch and puddle weld, dont bodge it on with mastic or it will match the adjacent panals
m

[waltraud]

This Kentish's pic of a new panel in place- i'm not that much of a pikey to put mastic in the upright seam.. ..there's a thought though....but was wondering about the top edge where I pressume i need to drill a series of holes to 'spot weld' along the top into the orig edge, so in effect the inside edge of the top of the new p[anel should but up against the old panel? IS that right? And where it butts up would it also need weld or are the spots enough and then finish off the seal with some zinc primer, tiny bit of filler and paint? Was wondering if that edge would 'crack' any paint/filler if not seam welded? Sorry for so many questions- makes sense to be as well prepared as possible.

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[Plasticman]

That makes perfect sense, I must have read your post wrong ref the mastic
aye that would be ok for the top, doing it this way you will have a solid base to spot down into, and yes you could tack the edge as well but if youve puddled it well enough I should be ok, basically you can if you wish but dont 'have' to, then after grinding a thin smear of self leveling reclamation paste and your done, oh brush a nice load of seam sealer over all the underside that you have exposed.
M

[New Kentish Campers]

This Kentish's pic of a new panel in place- i'm not that much of a pikey to put mastic in the upright seam.. ..there's a thought though....but was wondering about the top edge where I pressume i need to drill a series of holes to 'spot weld' along the top into the orig edge, so in effect the inside edge of the top of the new p[anel should but up against the old panel? IS that right? And where it butts up would it also need weld or are the spots enough and then finish off the seal with some zinc primer, tiny bit of filler and paint? Was wondering if that edge would 'crack' any paint/filler if not seam welded? Sorry for so many questions- makes sense to be as well prepared as possible.

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Yes that's how I did mine. The trick is to drill through the new panel and just into the old seam underneath, where you've cut it from the old arch, assuming its solid, and puddle-weld into both panels, i.e like a spot weld. If you practice then you wont need to much 'self-levelling' stuff but of course you will have grind marks, etc to deal with so its useful stuff to use.

E D I T: I forgot to add that its a good idea to brush some etch primer to all the jointing flanges before you weld everything together. You cant ever stop rust, but this at least slows it down nicely. I used a 2 pack etch primer, with a 1" brush, in light coats, worked fine for me

And as Mike says, you can run a little weld at the top of the arch where it joins the post. Although mine wasnt like that from the factory, it had rusted so I thought by doing a weld there and carefully grinding it back, at least thats one bit of rust that cant return and haunt me later on..

Keep us updated with your progress

[waltraud]

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Paint strippered until rain came down, as I thought it has had a new lower 3rd welded at the middle 'U' shaped seam , the only rust so far is the 'little bit' next to filler and the very bottom of thr wing edge. So, I could leave it in place but even then it would be hard to explore the inner B post edge so makes little sense how ever much I might its easier to con myself into doing the minimum. I recently repaired a windsreen corner and did one side properly with a new patch, seam welded and trated, paint etc and the other badly with weld to fill afew holes and then grinded back- the lattr took much longer, was a bad job and left me feeling I should have got the proper reopair section and cut out all the rot- its quicker in the long run. So i seam to be talking my ay into at least cutting off 1" below the filler as Michael suggested and if when I get abck to metal around the filler its worse than it looks then i'll do thr whole thing.

Looks like they never even filld the seam on the repaired lower section and there's definately some rust coming away from inside the seam about 4" up from the base.

[waltraud]

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[waltraud]

So i got busy stripping out surface crud and wads of thick underseal thats gone on like the back of an old carpet.....covering cheap and not very adequate repairs suprise suprise,. HMMM there's a few too many of these around the old girl but hey ho, i';ve not had a van yet that was otherwise.
So i decided that the main upper area of the O/S front wing was too good to chop so have repaired a small hole near edge of fuel filler and will 'blend' in ( and new lower section. Don't have a joddler and have decide that my 40£ birthday money is better spent on a new auto-darkening welding helmet (practical classics recommend a basic draper one for around this sort of money.) So is it better to weld on a new lower piece along the indent /swauge line or above this where it's flat?

After that have been poking around lower B post area where of course it's all rusty including a hole in the inner lower wing covered in sludge and underneath the jacking pont itself- so i'm planning to expose that whole area as far as reasonable and keeping good metal intact and then patching it from different angles so that inside, floor and strngthening sections are all new and safe to take the van & my 14 stone!

[Plasticman]

Hmm .looks good, with regard to the filler area, I see how youve done it but make 100% sure that there is no extra metal at the rear, as in have a lok at the plastic filler shroud and see the lugs on the back of it, well make sure they can rotate past any of your work (if not then 'modify the plastic lugs if you cant remove meatal) on the front face clean up the weld that protrudes into the area the plastic sit, if you know and are doing this anyway then my appologies for stating it.

youve seen how I chopped my post open , replicate this as its about as easy as it goes, think I did simmilar on andytats but I cant recall. am in kendal so intermittant free wifi.

need a picky of the bottom part of the arch to help with where I would cut and jpoin
Mike