Incorrect Engine Code for Engine Size - Timing Question..

[mblake4u]

Hi All,

I've got a slightly unusual engine - it was a recon purchased by the previous owner. The invoice shows the engine as a 1.9l watercooled, but the engine casing is a DJ (2.1l watercooled). It's running with a Pierburg carb 2E3, the OE dizzy (hall sender), no idle stabilising unit.

I phoned the company who sold the recon unit and they said the casings are the same for the 1.9 and 2.1 which sounds reasonable but the internals will be 1.9.

My question is: should I follow the instructions for 1.9 timing or 2.1 timing when I'm not sure about the internals?

What if they did give the previous owner a 2.1 and not a 1.9.. is it vital that I'm sure about the internals of the engine?

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Cheers, Michael

[Aidan]

time it at 5' btdc if running on normal unleaded doesn't matter which engine it is really it's running as a DG if it's running the 2e3 and DG disi
rebuilt engines are built in good cases what's inside varies
you can measure the stroke if you like using a pencil through a plug hole that will tell you which internals are fitted, 1.9 69mm, 2.1 76mm

[Red Westie]

I would say it's very important you know the difference particularly if this turns out to be a 2.1 DJ.
The 2.1 DJ has a higher 10.5:1 compression and so has to be run on 98 Ron Super Unleaded fuel and not regular 95.
The timing is also different and not just depending on engine type but year....then there are going to be differences because you are running carbs (if not standard)
You really do need to find out what you have.

Martin

[mblake4u]

Thanks Martin and Aidan for getting back to me on this.

I was going to do a compression test today to check all the cylinders are OK so I'll check the length of stroke too!

Cheers Michael

[Aidan]

if you time a DJ at 5' you can run it on 95RON, only needs 98RON at 10', DJ was retimed when leaded petrol became unavailable (and replacement DJ engines from VW were supplied with new pulleys marked at 5'), but some find that running 98RON at 10' gives better fuel economy and driving experience and the extra cost of the fuel is made up for with the drivability and extra economy
measuring stroke won't tell you which pistons are fitted though, could be DG, DJ or MV pistons inside, so won't tell you the compression ratio, hence my suggestion of 5' regardless as a base setting

[Ian Hulley]

My DJ was set at 5 degree btdc (by Aidan 3.5 years ago ) runs on 'standard' 95 unleaded absolutely fine and on lpg.

Ian

[mblake4u]

Well I didn't check the stroke in the end because I annoyed at finding the compression is way down on cylinder 1 (about 45 psi) the other 3 are all around 110 psi.

I must be really unlucky to have such low compression on a recon that's about a year and a half old..

So now I guess I need to check out the rings (a job I've never done and not looking forward to).. unless it's just the valves that need to readjusted.

Is it possible to check/repair the cylinder with the engine still in the car or will it end up being easier remving the engine?

TIA Michael

[California Dreamin]

The old trick is to carry out the compression check 'dry' then 'wet'....as in 45psi normal but does the compression rise appreciably when you squirt a couple of pumps of oil down the spark plug hole.
Basically......if the compression does rise alot the conclusion is piston ring related....if the compression doesn't rise much or at all then the diagnosis is valve/valve seat/head related.

Martin

[Aidan]

The old trick is to carry out the compression check 'dry' then 'wet'....as in 45psi normal but does the compression rise appreciably when you squirt a couple of pumps of oil down the spark plug hole.
Basically......if the compression does rise alot the conclusion is piston ring related....if the compression doesn't rise much or at all then the diagnosis is valve/valve seat/head related.

Martin

but doesn't really apply to flat 4 engines as oil just goes to bottom of cylinder rather than all around the rings

[mblake4u]

I was thinking if I could get a syringe and squirt the oil in such a way as to get it all round the edge of the piston. Probably very difficult to do on a hot engine etc.. and then it would run down to the lower point very quickly anyway.

Is there something I can do with adjusting the valves to see if I can improve it? Bear in mind I adjusted the valves the weekend before as they were quite noisy - tightened them an extra 1.25 turns after lightly touching.

Maybe I made a mistake when I adjusted them, but I'm pretty sure both were closed and piston was at top of its stroke.

I was thinking earlier this evening.. This is my first van, got it a couple of months ago. If I took all the hours I've spent working on it, reading up etc.. I could easily have driven from Cape Town to the UK (based on 70km/h, 8 hour driving day).. I wonder if I'll ever spend as much time driving the car as I've spent working on it!

[California Dreamin]

I was thinking if I could get a syringe and squirt the oil in such a way as to get it all round the edge of the piston. Probably very difficult to do on a hot engine etc.. and then it would run down to the lower point very quickly anyway.

Is there something I can do with adjusting the valves to see if I can improve it? Bear in mind I adjusted the valves the weekend before as they were quite noisy - tightened them an extra 1.25 turns after lightly touching.

Maybe I made a mistake when I adjusted them, but I'm pretty sure both were closed and piston was at top of its stroke.

I was thinking earlier this evening.. This is my first van, got it a couple of months ago. If I took all the hours I've spent working on it, reading up etc.. I could easily have driven from Cape Town to the UK (based on 70km/h, 8 hour driving day).. I wonder if I'll ever spend as much time driving the car as I've spent working on it!

This could certainly have something to do with your low compression....
You could try completely loosening them off (without pre-load) then do the compression check...the theory would be that if the compression returned you would know the cause was something to do with the valves not fully closing.

Martin

[mblake4u]

I'm pretty sure I adjusted them all the same, but I'm really hoping I made a mistake.

Thinking about the driving to the UK.. I made a mistake there.. If my van could drive as the crow flies then yes, I could be in the UK right now!

[ghost123uk]

If I recall correctly I made a mistake when last doing mine in that I let it cool down too much as I was adjusting them, causing one to be incorrectly adjusted (too tight)

This was a couple of years ago so don't shoot me down in flames if this sounds like bullocks.

[mblake4u]

I actually thought they were supposed to be adjusted when the engine's cold - if not, then that could be my problem.

As I'm not 100% about the internals of my engine, could it be possible that I don't have hydraulic lifters? In which case I've definitely adjusted them too tight.

I guess my question is - do all the 1.9 and 2.1 engines have hydraulic lifters?

Cheers, Michael

[ghost123uk]

I guess my question is - do all the 1.9 and 2.1 engines have hydraulic lifters?

From the factory = yes, but some engine re-con outfits fit solid ones !

Have you read this (from a link in our "wiki") = http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;