How do you value a Syncro?

[syncropaddy]

This thread is a spin off from the Samba thread and a conversation Paul and I had a while back.

I know how you dont value a Syncro .........

Purchase Price + all you spend on it = Value ..... dream on! That is not how its done to my mind.

So how do you value a Syncro?

Lets forget the daft prices that seem to be being asked in America and keep it in Europe. The most expensive Syncro that I have seen was the 400 km 1.6 TD van that went for €17000 on mobile.de a year or two back. I tried to buy it myself but wasn't quick enough and the seller said he should have asked for more as he thinks he would have got it! Then there was the 20,000km Westy that used to belong to VW that went for €15,000 about 3 years ago. We see the odd Syncro with very low miles in fire engine red - Feuerwehr vehicles - with €15k asking prices, but do they get these prices? Certainly if you want a rust free vehicle then these are the ones to get but they have all sorts of holes in the wrong places from the blue lights!! Genuine un-modded ones seem to be going for about €8500 or there abouts but how desirable are they?

What makes a desirable Syncro? originality? Useability? Fun factor? A combination of all?
What about condition? Which is more important ...... body, interior or mechanicals? How do you value someone elses DIY efforts? Positively or negatively?

To my mind a Syncro is valued on originality, the condition of the body, the interior and then mechanically.

What do you think? 

[HarryMann]

How do you value someone elses DIY efforts? Positively or negatively?

Usually pizz poorly, esp. mine, but there are exceptions... some people doing very good work, some a bit shocking and some middle of de road

I agree that weirdness and lots of holes in the wrong places (unless you want that specific vehicle) is a price reducer. Not attracted by Feuerwerzers or ambulances myself. Can all be fixed in theory, but good bodywork with minimal attacks made on it would rate pretty high in my book. As would lack of being driven through seawater or a pig farm in mid-winter. Less than 50,000 miles could also be attractive.... but I think you know when you drive it, either smooth and quiet or roguh and ready. All different

[Aidan]

Purchase Price + all you spend on it = Value ..... dream on! That is not how its done to my mind.

(purchase price + what you spend+ appreciation)-(value that YOU have had out of it and normal running costs (~£1k/year))

[..lee..]

simples. get very rich git to throw money on the table untill you throw them the keys and run off with the cash.

in my case it would have to be a very big pile dosh.

[axeman]

just dont think about it or you would never use it.

neil

[lloydy]

simples. get very rich git to throw money on the table untill you throw them the keys and run off with the cash.

in my case it would have to be a very big pile dosh.

i second that!

[syncropaddy]

in my case it would have to be a very big pile dosh.

This is the very nub of the question ......... so how big is the pile of dosh and what is the difference between its value and what you have spent on it?

Mine stands me about €15,000 and there is another €3,000 to be put into it this summer in the form of a AAZ, seam rash treatment, rear discs and four new tyres. Is it worth €18,000? The body will be perfect, the interior is immaculate, the engine and gearbox etc are spot on and its fitted with some correct, tasty period extras and is exceptionally original .......... €18k?? I doubt it .... €13k maybe .... or €10k even?

Would it be worth more if it had a Westy pop top? How much more? How much would it cost to fit a Westy pop top? ........

[lloydy]

for someone to buy my bus off me i would want £14-15k, not saying i would get that, or thats what i've spent on it. But i would want that so i could buy another and improve it. I think the camping versions will always carry a premium, especially if it has westfalia at the beginning. Realistically i think a westy is £10kish, but then you see some of the 2WD's go for more than that.
Rarity comes into it to, white westy's are on every street corner round here

[syncropaddy]

for someone to buy my bus off me i would want £14-15k, not saying i would get that, or thats what i've spent on it. But i would want that so i could buy another and improve it. I think the camping versions will always carry a premium, especially if it has westfalia at the beginning. Realistically i think a westy is £10kish, but then you see some of the 2WD's go for more than that.
Rarity comes into it to, white westy's are on every street corner round here

So what makes your 16" worth £15k in your mind if you reckon a Westy is worth £10k ish (even a white one!!) LHD deffo adds to the value as the market is bigger.

[lloydy]

for someone to buy my bus off me i would want £14-15k, not saying i would get that

not saying its worth that, its what i would want. As you know valueing these things is tricky, especially if you want to buy another after. Personally i think a 16" is more valuable than a comparible 14" due to rarity, but i can also appriciate the downside of some parts being more expensive (not as bad as i first thought)
If i had £15k to spare i would buy a syncro for that, but only if it was completely refurbed and in perfect condition. Most of the westy's kicking around have issues of somekind, either bodywork or mechanical so in my mind value then drops down

[slobbo]

I spend a bit more for condition of the bodywork. Ideally I look for unrestored excellent condition bodywork. I have had a few restored vans and no matter how much effort you put into eliminating the rust it comes back. A good unrestored van lasts longer as long as it is looked after.

One of the biggest selling points of mine is the fact it has had a galvy bath. The powerful engine was a draw as well because the standard fodder is a bit, well, underwhelming. I like the power. I would have preferred the TDi but the VR6 is good.

I like it to be unique and desirable as well. Things like lifted and decent wheels are attractive. All things that cost lots but have been done already make a van more desirable as well.

The interior in mine is a home brew job but is probably the most flexible I have ever had and I have had a few different variations. It is not perfect but very flexible.

[KarlT]

My thoughts......
Campers are always worth more as more people can justify a T3 (or syncro) if they can sleep/holiday in it & westies worth the most camper as people like the name & was approved by VW.
On that note, a pop-top will increase value (because of above) but don't do it unless you really want/need it. I fitted one to my tin-top & wish I hadn't really. Too small for the 4 of us & really takes away from driving fun. I may take mine off again but have now got a massive hole in my once lovely tin-top.... Learn from my mistake.

[ninja.turtle007]

What it is worth and how much it will sell for are two completely different things.

A lot of people seem to think a nice Westy Syncro is worth £14k plus, but do you know of one being sold for that amount?

I'm currently considering changing from an MV to a MTDi. It is very expensive and I'm trying to justify cost/increased value/economy/drivability. With the purchase price of the van, new VC and engine conversion i'll be looking at £16k.
Would it sell for this? No, I don't think so but it would be in my eyes pretty much the best Westy Syncro around. For us as a family we have had loads of great times away in the vans and met some really nice people, so if after spending all the money we decided to sell I wouldn't be too bothered about loosing £3k or so.

Price comes down to how much money someone has available and how much they are prepared to spend. Are they buying with their head or is it an very expensive impulse buy?

If any one is interested I have a westy syncro that's worth £25k and a rusty Syncro velle worth £10k!

[slobbo]

I lost a bomb on the Red Syncronutz (Russels old panel van) because I TDi'd it. I did it thinking I would keep it for a good while however fate transpired against me. I have not learn't from that experience as I have spent in excess of £4k since Aug 2009 on the Blue Syncro. Some of that was essential, like the gearbox rebuild but a good portion of it isn't. I like many of you drive em because I love em. If my wife had anything to do with it the van would be gone tomorrow.

[syncropaddy]

What it is worth and how much it will sell for are two completely different things.

I disagree ..... its worth what you can sell it for and not a penny more!