Gears

[rollercoaster]

Not sure if this is really Syncro specific,
I need to be very sure with my gearchange into 1st and second,
it feels like the linkage isnt moving far enough at the gearbox end,
at the gearknob end it moves almost as far as possible.
The box is probably fine, and I looked at the underneath of the gear lever,
think its in good nick:

What is next to check?
Is there an obvious solution?
It drives with no problem with concious deliberate gearchange, its not forcing anything, just can't be sloppy or lazy.
However it seems prudent to tighten this up before things get out of hand.
Thanks

[Aidan]

selector rod looks good, so what are the bushes like and the cup and ball, is the boot intact, is there lube, is it all tight
have you changed the oil ?

[rollercoaster]

Thanks Aidan,
Not sure what bushes you mean, half way down the shaft under the middle of the van?
they dont seem too bad, a tiny bit of play perhaps..
But this end might be the culprit:

I dont have any idea what a good selector looks like but I am guessing theres a bit of play,
one thing that seems wrong is that the long shaft runs out of movement and I think thats what I feel on the stick.


See what I mean?
Is that the cup and ball? If its a bit too worn then it would allow the long shaft to bottom out,
without shifting the gears properly in the box.
When it got the Subaru motor fitted, the prognosis was good on the box, it got oilchange and seemed all good.
I do hope this is the problem, is it easy enough to recondition?

[Aidan]

the boot on the selector ball is not fitted correctly, it should have it's skirt puled down over the outside of the cup, as it is it will be offerring resistance and obstruction to the process at worst and isn't doing anything to keeping lube clean and where it should be

[rollercoaster]

You're right, sort of,
there isnt really a boot any more,
I pulled the remains of it right down, and now I can tell theres lots of play,
is that ball and cup bit serviceable,
quick look on Brick site, cant see replacements or recon kit..
Looks like they sell new boots, but think thats for preventative maintenance,
it needs one, but after sorting out the play.

[Aidan]

boots are available, I have genuine new balls only (reuse the metal bit), the petrol cup is nla, I'll be asking Ian to work out cost of milling them from billet, original ones are cast, the bushes for the linkage are all stilll available, anything brickie doesn't carry I do, and we can get them from Germany - there are also Topran boxed kits of the bushes and ball on ebay but I found the metal bit of the ball is a poor fit and requires filing the splines to fit properly

[footstuck]

On mine there is a steel shroud around the bottom of the gear stick.
Those nodules at the bottom of the stick hit the guide rails
inside the shroud. This guides the gear change and
selection, preventing 1st or reverse being selected accidentally,
to select reverse you have to push down on the stick to avoid one of the guides
It also aids lining up 3rd and 4th selection.
Did you remove this part for the photo?. . .
If not this could be why you do not have a positive selection
I’ve never seen one without this steel shroud thing fitted.
As for the lack of positive engagement, there is a clinch bolt which will
enabe you to ajust the length of the shaft.
Before my gearstick snapped it lost its positive selection (I guess as the metal fatigued).

[HarryMann]

As for the lack of positive engagement, there is a clinch bolt which will
enabe you to ajust the length of the shaft.

Very slightly, its really for adjusting the relative angle of the rear section to the front, via the splines

I take it you have read all the info in the Wiki about gearchanges, Syncro or otherwise??

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ma ... x_specific

'cos that's what the Wiki's for, to save re-answering same quests here repeatedly.

I'd say check everything out, especially wear on tha ball and cup, and the rear sliding joint with bellows either side. Another tip often overlooked is to check that the selector cup itself, which is roll-pinned to the shaft, is not loose at that point (most rearward component of rod)

Good luck, maybe Nick has a point, has the detent box under the cab been removed...

[lhd]

boots are available, I have genuine new balls only (reuse the metal bit), the petrol cup is nla, I'll be asking Ian to work out cost of milling them from billet, original ones are cast, the bushes for the linkage are all stilll available, anything brickie doesn't carry I do, and we can get them from Germany - there are also Topran boxed kits of the bushes and ball on ebay but I found the metal bit of the ball is a poor fit and requires filing the splines to fit properly

Have a petrol cup here you can use to rule out of the equation if needed?
Rob.

[syncroandy]

I reckon if the cup bit is worn badly it wouldn't be to hard to repair it by bonding in a sleeve of suitable diameter after filing the insides more or less parallel. Seems a bit OTT to be milling one out of billet, it's not a super precision or heavy-duty part..

[HarryMann]

Being blind at one and of thin wall, wouldn't be too easy to file it out accurately would it Andy. But yes, folding some brass shimstock or Teflon sheet inside could be a fix

[silverbullet]

Along comes an eavesdropping engineer

If you want to have a go at filing one out I hope you've got plenty of free time and like the idea if tennis elbow!
I can't see a wrapped shim stuffed inside the cup staying put IME. The term "billet" always conjures up a mental picture of rediculously chunky and oversize parts - they don't have to be like that!

The cup on ours was badly worn, I took it off the rod and bored it to 32mm diameter just to get it cleaned up (the ball is 30mm +0, -0.1 max btw) then pressed in an alloy sleeve to restore the size. If it had been any more worn it would have been dustbin filler, as there's not enough meat in the cup to have any durability after repair.

It took me about an 90 mins including dismatling the rod/cup; cleaning up the grot; boring and turning the cup and sleeve; reassembly with new bellows and grease.

Vast improvement in the shift despite having re-tipped the fork, but I ran out of spares so didn't do the centre bearing...naughty boy

I very nearly made one from scratch and was prepared to if the repair went "chest buttons skyward", they won't be hard to remake at all, so won't break the bank. The rest of the original parts needed will see to that!

[HarryMann]

I'll have the prototype diesel one then Ian please.. s'along as its made of aluminium bronze, should be able to report back with the next 3 years or so, after measuring any wear - will return it subsequently, no fear

The main problem I find is that the rods are getting worn down by about 40 to 60 thou (asymmetrically), so new bushes at the back or middle don't completely restore the situation.

90 mins, so the next one will take 45 and then 22.5 ?

Gissus a price and I'll send you a cup

[rollercoaster]

Wiki is great and I guess we build on it all the time

I have no Internet for a while and just been catching up awkwardly on my phone

I did dismantle the cup and ball, but cleaned and greased it and reassembled because I am using the van for work. Nearly did try to pack out the play by binding the ball with tape or something more imaginative, I cut a bicycle handlebar grip for a sleeve it was a close fit but eventually thought better of it.
The cup has what seems like a wear lip it definitely bigger inside than at it's lip whist the ball looks ok. I didn't measure it. My van is very high miles and mostly in dusty SA so it could have had severe wear and a new ball since. My guess is it moves loosely about 6 or 7 mm of untransfered movement!
As I said that means the sliding bush next to it runs out of travel, bottoming out both ways without throwing the gears in properly. So yes I would like a cup if it's on offer, and a new ball and boot please ASAP.
I suspect driving it like this is doing the box no good.
The other sliding bushes are a bit worn but not so bad and it won't be affecting the throw of the gears as drastically
Another problem is that the drive shaft seals are weeping gearbox oil..

[silverbullet]

In the case of the 2WD one I repaired most recently (should have mentioned that ^^^ was the one) the wear on the selector lever ball was quite minimal, around 0.3mm max. so may well have been changed when it had a transmission swap by a previous owner.

If I was going to make some from solid, then I'd go for a slight design improvement in the form of a renewable insert i.e. a standard sintered bronze bearing, light press fit. The cost increase would be minimal, the benefit for the long-term owner considerable

PS You don't want one from solid ali bronze Clive, they would be £££ the way that material prices are going