Another inner sill replacement

[silver surfer]

I have started to restore my 89 panel van and knew that I had an outer driver's side sill to replace. I read Fidget's post from start to finish and thought ' wow thats a lot of work i'm glad mine is only the outer sill'. Well it just goes to show you shouldn't even think these things and to cut a long story short I had a poke around and it looks like i need to relace the inner sill as well.

I have said on that post i think if it hadn't been for reading that post I probably would have scrapped the van.

So i started the job today. I cut out the old outer sill and part of the inner sill.

Things i know now that I didn't know this morning:

1) Sheet metal is really sharp
2) My hands have gone soft from being in an office for too long
2) How T25 sills are constructed
3) Where my three cats s**t when they are outside
4) Small children can weld better than me

I will post some pictures if anyone can let me know how to do it.

Thanks again to Fidget for the motivation and for Metalmickey for making things look so easy .

At least when its done another van will have been saved from the scrappy as a result of Club 80-90 forum posts (as long as my welding gets better that is)

[mark1967]

1) Sheet metal is really sharp
2) My hands have gone soft from being in an office for too long
2) How T25 sills are constructed
3) Where my three cats s**t when they are outside
4) Small children can weld better than me


At least when its done another van will have been saved from the scrappy as a result of Club 80-90 forum posts (as long as my welding gets better that is)

Sign up here : http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/ read thru the tutorials which are quite good.Lots of friendly support on the forum too

[fidget]

Hi mate

Have you welded Before? . If not try youre local college for a night class. I did that years ago, the bonus of this is you learn on industrial migs using there gas and there metal which makes life a hell of a lot easier and cheaper. Plus you get a city and guilds certificate to impress the wife with at the end of it. then forget most of what you learnt cause welding nice thick plate is totally different to 20 year old van .

Dont cut out to much just yet as its best to keep something as a referance point . If you can get a inner sill from vw classic ( Look in the wiki ^ up there for info on that, guaranteed fit) , buy direct from them dont go through vw heritage as you will pay extra.

Mike will be along soon to offer words of wisdom and want pictures .

Im no expert when it comes to the internet , you need to open a photo sharing account , I use picture trail. You upload the pictures to there and then you can get image url's which you put in your posts and then internet magic makes them appear

james

[silver surfer]

So some pics.

Here is the van - 89 AAZ powered panel van



I bought it white about 5 years ago I think and put the body kit on it, lowered it and sprayed it with two other friends. For a number of reasons the van got abandoned at my house and sat for about three years. I finally got to the point where I was going to scrap it but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. So here I am in the early stages of a restoration.

Anyway back to the topic, here is pic of what I found when i took the drivers side plank off



So I was on the verge of scrapping it again but for James's post. I started today with some cutting and got this far



Bottom of the C post is ok and the top of the rear jacking point is ok. I cut a square out to get a better view. The inner sill is rotten near the top of the JP so i think I will have to either repair this or fit the whole inner sill. Any thoughts anyone. I looked at your pictures James and am i right in thinking that you cut the inner sill down?

Here is the other end



The cross member / outrigger ?? is ok and the bottom of the B post is ok (bit of rot) so I think they will be ok to leave in. I'm not sure however if it is possible to put ina full inner sill without cutting one or both of the posts.

[silver surfer]

James, did you cut down your inner sill? Any thoughts on cutting the B or C posts to get the new inner sill in?

[fidget]

Hi mate

I cut of about 2" inches from the inner sill where it fits above the rear jacking point/suspension location point, to get the complete sill in is a lot of work at the back end. I had to replace the front cross member so didnt need to cut it , But if you look at Dugcatis photos on his link he cut of the part of the cross-member that tucks under the inner sill .Kept it and welded it back in place once the inner sill was in place. Looking at your pictures the b-post looks past its best , If your putting in a new sill it would be false economy to leave crispy metal there to fester . Also Id be suprised if the front face of the cross member (where the end of the inner sill is welded to it) is up to much judging by the pic. Personally I'd spend some time getting the underseal scraped of from the back wall of the wheel arch to see if the rust has crept up the b-post or rotted through the cross-member.

your pic isnt a million miles from what mine looked like



from inside the wheel arch

.

Im afraid the next few weeks are going to be spent finding out how far the rust has gone, I tried to save as much as I could but it didnt work out that way. Just got easier the more I cut out.

In no way am I saying how Ive done mine is the way to do it but its a example of how far you have to go to do the job properly (ish). It is a lot of work , have to admit I considered chucking in the towel on many an occassion.


Metalmick8ey's and Dugcatis photo links show all the details of the way things go back together. It might be worth sticking up some more pictures.


James

PS. pop into general chat and introduce yourself

[silver surfer]

Introduction in the General forum done

Well reminded, never thought of that as I have been a member for about 4 years but not been active on here for a long time.

Thanks for the info I will do some more digging to see how far the rust has gone.

[silver surfer]

So a bit of an update.
I have been trying to sort some bits to get on with the repair. I managed to get an original new inner sill from one of the members on here (thanks Rob ). Still need to get an outer sill and a rear panel (the small one just before the rear arch)

Whilst I was waiting for bits I have been doing a bit of welding practice (getting a bit better but still a welder on me mothers side ). Anyway i will keep at it. I have managed to do some reasonable runs on a bit of sheet I cut out of the inner sill.

Learned something else: No matter how good the weather NEVER weld in flip flops (you wouldn't think I worked on a site where Health and Safety is king)

I have been looking through lots of posts on here and have a couple of questions if anyone can help

1) When welding in new panels do you need to clean up the panels where the welds will be (get the black paint off)?
2) do you spray zinc weld thru primer between lap joints before you weld?
3) what primer is best to use after i have welded the panels (I ask this as I have cleaned up some rust on one of the panels back to bare metal and sprayed with grey primer but rust came back through (is primer porous))

Cheers

Silver surfer

[jimpainter]

Yes you will need to clean off the black paint. It isnt a rust proofing or an etch primer.
A zinc weld thru primer is a good option if your overlapping joints. I always prefer butt welds where possible, as they seem less of a moisture trap.
Primer is porous. You need an etch primer on bare metal, then primer and then a top coat. If your not having the van sprayed for a bit just get some cheap rattle cans to protect the metal underneath. You dont want new metal going rusty.

[silver surfer]

Thanks Jim.
As you can probably tell I am new to this body repair lark. Spanners, sockets, feeler gauges etc etc etc no problem bare metal, sandpaper, filler, paint etc.......................................eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerm What the blithering heck

Chris

[jimpainter]

Just take your time and do plenty of practice with the welder.

[silver surfer]

Welder - Check
Inner sill - Check
Outer sill repair panel - Check
Rear sill / arch repair panel - Check

Other half taking the kids off to a wedding and a weeks visiting - Check

About ready to start I think. Just a little bit nervous I have to say but really want to do this

Just a quick question if anyone can help - When welding in new panels do you plug weld the flanges where the two panels meet from the inside if possible to maintain a panel joint on the outside or weld the two panels together then cut in a joint (e.g. Outer sill repair panel to rear sill / arch repair panel?

[mm289]

By joint do you mean seam? Not an expert (yet ) but I am plug welding the returns together on the panels I am fitting to retain an "original" seam.

Re primers, most primers are porous, or so it seems, I will be using an epoxy primer which isn't. Lots of stuff on mig welder as well as here about this, but Lechler 29107 seems to be regularly recommended.

I am also using weld through zinc primer on bare metal and treating any previously rusted bits with Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 as a rust "converter" (after shot blasting).

On the wedling front - and speaking from recent experience - the wekding is much easier if you are using gas with your Mig rather than gasless.

HTH.

PS, I'll race ya to get the sill finished, see here https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=89420
MM

[silver surfer]

By joint I did mean seam, and yes I was wondering if others were plug welding the returns. Thanks for clarifying.

I will be welding with Argonshield Lite when my local gas supplier gets back from holiday. I have give my mate his welder back and invested in a semi-pro machine (bit over the top really but i have always wanted to be able to weld and have wanted a machine for years)

Thanks for the info on the primers etc it really helps. If its any use I got some zinc galvanising spray made by Paraweld from Weldequip. I have used this on a reapir to my garage door and it works really well. Only £6 ish a tin maybe of some use on the van after welding and before priming.

Are you doing the inner sill too or only the outer?

[mm289]

just a small repair to the seam return on the inner fortunately. New outer though then making my own floor and lower outer skin repairs.

Which welder did you get?

MM