real starting problem

[tonyandjulie]

Help help help...!!!! Ok, so

Due to an issue where - the van would turn over with the key, turn it straight off, will not restart. So,

New battery and new starter motor = same problem !

12.3v before starting at the solenoid and then 11.8 when the key is turned to start, engine earth is good too.

connect a battery jump pack to the starter directly earthing it to the engine, van will turn over and start perfectly no problem on the key !.

Remove battery back from the starter, van will not even turn over on the key. still got 12 feed to the starter from the battery and 11.8 on the solenoid when the key is turned !!!!!!

I am really really really confused. I have heard tales that this is due to old wiring/ resistance etc... can anyone shed any light on this as I am totally baffled .

[camper]

Tell us what engine it is.But check the gearbox mount earth strap is making good contact .

[tonyandjulie]

oops 1.9 DG Petrol 1983

[kevtherev]

sounds like an earth fault as said

[Oldiebut goodie]

12.3 is low - should see 12.7 + with a good battery/wiring. Remake/clean all power connections and earths - engine, gearbox + any others found(both ends).

[milky]

run a second earth from starter bellhousing bolt to battery,run a 12v test wire from solenoid,that you can touch the battery +terminal with then go turn ignition on ,then touch the + with the wire ,its worth a try

[Bert2]

I had this problem and solved it and the van now starts first time without fail. The ignition switch gets worn and produces enough resistance to drop the voltage enough so that the start solenoid does not operate correctly, it clicks but is not positive enough to produce a good connection just like a flat battery. There are two ways round this or you can do both and uprate the start system to a modern system.
1. Change the ignition switch for a new one.
2. Where the 12v supply is fed to the starter solenoid use this as a signal for a 30a relay then run the switched supply from the battery through the relay to the starter solenoid. The ignition switch then only has to cope with the small amount of current required to operate the 30a relay the relay then switches the supply to the start solenoid, the voltage drop from the ignition to the relay is not enough to cause problems.

All I required was the extra relay and my van has not failed to start since altering the system but I will renew my ignition switch in the summer.

Good luck

[tonyandjulie]

That sounds like the perfect solution (2). I presume I only need to run wire the same as is already attached to the starter solenoid, so nothing heavy duty needed ?.

I have spoken to someone else who had the same problem and he did what you have suggested and it cured it once and for all.

[Bert2]

no heavy cable required, I sited the relay on the bulkhead in the engine bay just above the gearbox the switched feed for the relay is the one that went to the starter solenoid it might need extending, and the other terminal earthed so when the key is turned you will hear the 30A relay clicking. Then the feed supply is fed from the positive battery terminal (this could be be the longest run depending on where your battery is sited) to one of the switched terminals of the relay, the other out switched terminal is connected to the started solenoid. if you do not have enough cable to run from a front located battery, you can run a supply from the heavy duty starter cable that is the feed for the starter as this is live all the time and the relay draws very little current. It really does work

[tonyandjulie]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh it's driving me insane !!!!...I have done the following, and still it will not turn over !!!

1. earth strap from gearbox =ok

2. New battery and starter motor.

3. Wired in relay as follows: + and - wires to relay straight from battery. Used original starter wire to open relay,
relay is opening too.

4. When the ignition off the battery voltage and voltage at the relay end is 12.8v, when i turn ignition on, battery
voltage drops to 12.5v,mmmm is this ok ?.

when I turn the key tho, absolutely nothing happens. I am so stumped and my van has been immobile since October !!!!!. Any suggestions, apart from setting fire to it !.

[eatcustard]

Whey you mean nothing happens, do you mean dead on key?

[Ian Hulley]

Could be a duff ignition switch. Could be the small signal wire to the starter ... both are common faults.

Ian.

[tonyandjulie]

yes, when I tuen the key to start it, nothing happens. I have attached a test light to the output end of the relay and when i turn the key the test light lights up showing that the signal wire to the starter solenoid is opening the relay and allowing the power through.

Im guessing all the ignition key is doing is sending the current to open the relay I fitted, nothing more, and that seems to be opening the relay.

It is driving me mad tho lol

[Ian Hulley]

Could be a duff 'new' starter too ... do you have a chum with a known good one to try ?

Ian.

[tonyandjulie]

the starters ok and been tested off the van and the prob was there with the old starter that once removed strted ok off the van, thought I may as well change it anyway..