1.9 to 2.1

[texasuk]

I've searched here, the Wiki and the tech archive and can't find a direct answer so I'm taking the risk and asking it out loud here.

Can you just replace a 1.9 DF with a 2.1 without having to make any major changes? Is it a very straight swap? Where can I get a 2.1, in pretty much any condition, or will any companies take it in exchange? If I need to, can you get a twin carb setup for the 2.1 from anywhere off the shelf?

OK it is 3 or 4 questions really but I'd appreciate the info. Thanks in advance.

[toomanytoys]

the answers are on here and quite recent too...
https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=58807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DO NOT try and run it with the solex carb and manifold from the DF.. it wont work very well...
Swap over to a DG carb and manifold (and relevant cooling parts too) and revel in the massive improvement in torque and power, without the fi electronics to worry about..

But.. why would you want one in "any condition", surely its better to buy a good used one..

Speak to Elite about putting your DF in exchange for a refurb'd 2.1, they will charge you extra for the 2.1 parts but at least you would get a fresh engine with 12 or 24 months warranty...

Try and swap to the later cooling system too.. and USE the oil cooler..

[texasuk]

Goddam I tried just about every search string I could think of and didn't see that topic, thanks for the pointer.

Good used one would be handy, but I wouldn't mind rebuilding one, means you really know what state it is in.
I wasn't thinking of using DF parts, I have read how they compare to the later equipment, but I didn't know about a later cooling system, I'll have to look that one up.

Thanks again.

Plus, if anyone has one for sale.....

[kevtherev]

Goddam I tried just about every search string I could think of and didn't see that topic, thanks for the pointer.

Good used one would be handy, but I wouldn't mind rebuilding one, means you really know what state it is in.
I wasn't thinking of using DF parts, I have read how they compare to the later equipment, but I didn't know about a later cooling system, I'll have to look that one up.

Thanks again.

Plus, if anyone has one for sale.....

Ok, my mate uses the early water system on his 2.1 with no issues to date after two years.

but I wouldn't mind rebuilding one, means you really know what state it is in.

All well and good if you can source the parts to actually believe that. god knows I tried

Nope .. a low mileage or recon engine is your best bet.
Elite engines offer a fitting service that is still to be bettered

[toomanytoys]

Yes you can use the early "DG" system (DF is slightly different again IIRC), but it isnt ideal.. coolant flow from no1 pot isnt great in the summer... and needs a small bypass inserting, and tapping into the system for the oil cooler.. + the t'stat housing is obsolete and virtually always corroded to hell so breaks...

[texasuk]

Blimey, a Subaru is beginning to sound a bit easier after reading some of the threads you have pointed at. I'll have to weigh the pros, cons, costs and practicality up again.

[Ian Hulley]

Blimey, a Subaru is beginning to sound a bit easier after reading some of the threads you have pointed at. I'll have to weigh the pros, cons, costs and practicality up again.

I guess it depends if you have a spare 3 or 4 grand kicking around at a loose end. The late 1.9DG>2.1DJ is a straight swap, the insurance aren't concerned (although they should be informed of course) and you should still have all the spares which you keep for your 1.9 which will mostly fit straight on the 2.1 .... starter motor, alternator, fuel pump if you stick to the DG carb set-up, probably a universal water pump these days, alt drive belt, clutch components etc etc PLUS there's many more of us with knowledge of the WBX than there is with intimate knowledge of the Subaru (even if they've never needed it )

Can't make your decision for you of course but that's what a good few on here have done before you, including myself.

Ian.

[ermie571]

Have changed 3 1.9 dgs to 2.1's now.

Elite did 2 of them, one a 1988, and one a 1990. No oil cooler on either (advice at the time was opposite to Toomanytoys - it doesn't get hot enough in this country to warrent the additional pipe work and plumbing and labour to fit it) - 2 and 3 years on all is good.

the other van was a 1984 DG...so early. And plumbing in a late dj was tough. Pipes needed cutting, and with the addition of the LPG warmimg pipes, the cooling system in the engine bay is a true bastardization on what VW provided. I think it has an oil cooler though, but only because it came with the engine. E D I T: should make this clear....this was a changeover done by ourselves...not a professional change to a recon unit.

Good luck with the changeover

Em
x

[fix]

Have changed 3 1.9 dgs to 2.1's now.

Elite did 2 of them, one a 1988, and one a 1990. No oil cooler on either (advice at the time was opposite to Toomanytoys - it doesn't get hot enough in this country to warrent the additional pipe work and plumbing and labour to fit it) - 2 and 3 years on all is good.

the other van was a 1984 DG...so early. And plumbing in a late dj was tough. Pipes needed cutting, and with the addition of the LPG warmimg pipes, the cooling system in the engine bay is a true bastardization on what VW provided. I think it has an oil cooler though, but only because it came with the engine. E D I T: should make this clear....this was a changeover done by ourselves...not a professional change to a recon unit.

Good luck with the changeover

Em
x

I will be fitting an oil cooler to my 1.9 -2.1 conversion, im hoping it wont cost that much extra and surely its worth it just for the peace of mind.

[Ian Hulley]

I will be fitting an oil cooler to my 1.9 -2.1 conversion, im hoping it wont cost that much extra and surely its worth it just for the peace of mind.

The oil cooler's available from GSF ... it's the same as the 1.8i Golf/Scirocco etc. The hoses come from Brickwerks, the water pumps are now universal, fit a new one with the oil cooler spigot. The issue is the thermostat housing and the feed pipe across the n/s cylinder head, although I bet a piece of microbore could be used if push came to shove.

Ian.

Oh and FFS make sure the sump plug undoes

[fix]

Yep i remember you saying about the oil coolers being available from GSF i will be getting mine from there, are there only the two hoses that are needed?

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Do you mean the pipe could end up melting as i goes across the cylinder? Im not sure what microbore is.

And i dont know who youre saying about the sump plug to, mine came out with mole grips

[Ian Hulley]

You need 2 of the 90 degree ones and 1 of the one from the t/stat housing, there should be a steel pipe that crosses the n/s head and another from the pump down to the cooler ... obviously original is bestest but I've seen these made in 8mm copper with olives on before now.

Ian

[fix]

I think it will have to be copper pipe if i cant get hold of the original (probably not!). Though isnt there a problem with using copper pipe in the colling system?

Also did you mean about the possibility of melting pipes when going over the cylinder head?

[Ian Hulley]

I think it will have to be copper pipe if i cant get hold of the original (probably not!). Though isnt there a problem with using copper pipe in the colling system?

It's less than ideal but if needs must the tube across the head is above the metal itself (or could soon be made to be). I've seen some just use a hose from the pump straight onto the cooler but again that's not what VW intended.

Ian.

[texasuk]

OK after talking to a few people it all becomes a little muddier, as is expected I guess.

For those of you who have made the change, could you tell me what difference you have actually noticed, percieved or factual?

1. Have you noticed the difference in horespower from a 1.9 to a 2.1?
2. Do you think it was cost effective to make the change (could you have replaced like with like and got by quite happily, with less cost)?
3. Has anyone gone from a DF to a DG and noticed a difference?

Sorry for the endless questions, but I do like to find out as much as I can before starting something that could end up costing more than it is worth.