Adjusting old LPG system.

[KarlT]

Hi.
Just wanting to know how to adjust the mixture on my old LPG system.







It all runs & works fine but I've borrowed a gas/co2 meter off a friend & am wanting to check co2 levels.
Its a 2.1 engine. What levels should I be aiming for & how do I achieve that?

[CovKid]

The short answer is if you have the need to ask the question, then you shouldn't be attempting it. It doesn't cost a fortune to get it checked/setup professionally and on gas you should be doing just that.

[KarlT]

My nearest one is a 60 mile round trip & I've got a co2 meter thing here .......Can't be rocket science can it?

[CovKid]

No, thats why you're asking the question

I doubt anyone will give you a simple answer since one set up can be different from another and no one on here likes to supply these kind of answers on something that could cause you damage if not done correctly. You need to speak to Steve Shaw but I imagine he'll give you a similar answer. You sure the nearest place you could get it done is 60 miles? Don't forget your insurance expects your LPG system to be safely installed (with a safety certificate) and to be serviced by someone qualified.

[T'Onion]

If its running ok then leave it alone. If the co2 levels are out then seek a pro's help

[Cruz]

My nearest one is a 60 mile round trip & I've got a co2 meter thing here .......Can't be rocket science can it?

IF things went awry with my LPG system I wouldn't hesitate to drive the 120 mile round trip to Steve Shaw's.........in fact I have done on several occasions for various things

Tell me a more precise location than 'the sunny south' and I may be able to tell you the location of an LPG fitter that's nearer than 30 miles away

[CovKid]

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... t#p7419832" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haven't we already had a thread where you were twiddling? And didn't we say the same then?

The thing is, you won't get a different answer on this even if rephrased. I don't mean that to sound negative but we're all giving you sound advice based on hard experience. I'm a DIY LPG guy myself but I wouldn't have contemplated it without having a massive folder full of the COPII regs (plus revisions) that apply to autogas and knowing how it all works, and even then I still seek a pro for final checks. This kind of work should be no more attempted than messing with a domestic gas fire. Rocket science no, but setting them up by an approved or at least knowledgable installer is recommended for your own safety or you may well create a rocket.

I know everyone plugs Steve a lot, and encouraging that they do, but the essential thing here is having it done by someone qualified to do so. If you don't and things do go wrong, you could not only endanger yourself but any passengers and other road users. Your insurance could end up null and void too. If it doesn't have a certificate for safety then do get one or go on a recognised training course. This is one area you shouldn't try to bypass or make short cuts on.

[Cruz]

Covkid, Super Detective

Even so it is still an enclosed area and the owner has been informed that this installation contravenes the specification for UK lpg conversion, in the event of an accident or other matter involving the insurance they will not pay and in fact if they inspect it they will void his insurance, he has been told it up to him to stop fiddling wit the system and get it sorted out properly before somebodies life is in danger.

You can take a horse to water.........

[KarlT]

Time to get off those high (water drinking) horses!

I am not a DIY gas installer. (As I'm sure you've seen,) I've already said.......It was already installed in a vented compartment & my insurance company is aware of the installation. They have not asked for any test certificate & I can't see its requirement in their small print (has anyone got/seen it in theirs).

I'm in Torbay, I've been told the only 'good' LPG specialist is Marsh Barton, Exeter.

Now, to the point, I've borrowed a co2 meter as I want to check all my engines as too rich a mix is not good & too lean a mix is not good. I'm just wanting to know if the co2 level on gas should be the same as petrol or slightly higher/lower. To say all gas emission levels will be different is like saying all petrol is different, surely?
If vested interests don't want to say how to adjust co2 levels, fine/understandable, they want to make money.

As said, it is working fine, I'm just after the correct levels on a 2.1 with my LPG (see above) system. Anyone know?

[CovKid]

http://www.lpgforum.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ghost123uk]

I can see that the liquid gas side of the system is very specialised work and any work there should be left to Steve S etc, but is it a big "no no" to adjust the main and tick-over mixture screws if required ?

I could be wrong, ( I often am ) but when I got mine done (a few years ago now) by Steve S, he showed me the 2 adjusters and told me what they do.

I think I am correct in thinking that plug colour is no guide to mixture on an LPG system either, so I suppose if one has one that is "out", a CO2 test is what the professionals would use to get it adjusted correctly.

[CovKid]

What you have to bear in mind is that the person you speak to on the insurers phone line (who is in the business of selling) does not have the same knowledge as an insurance assessor and what happens in the real world is that in the event of a claim, the assessor will look for ANYTHING to refute an insurance claim. For instance, has the tank been tested and if so when? They need to be tested every ten years to make sure they comply. If you have an old system, it does not mean that the rules that applied then, apply now and your present system almost certainly won't comply with modern standards. Insurance, and whether it holds in the event of an accident (however minor) is up to you but crucially it also affects those around you.

All of us have to be VERY careful in terms of the advice and information we provide and as you'll find over the next few years, servicing vehicles at home will become harder to do (thanks to EU regulations). Local authorities are already tightening up on repairs being done in the street. Some councils even forbid that now. Certainly the rules governing LPG have moved up numerous gears and are in virtually the same bracket as domestic gas adjustment/repairs. To get the correct CO2 level, ask your local garage, VOSA/DVLA or try the forum I've suggested. Many of us put in a lot of time in helping owners keep their vehicles running but fuel systems pose particular hazards, LPG doubly so. At the end of the day I'm more than competent with LPG installations but fine adjustments and full checks I entrust to a pro as I cannot afford to have an assessor void my insurance (particularly carrying small children on board). Its not so much a case of being on high horses as explaining why you shouldn't be doing this yourself, both from a safety and law point of view. We would be wholly negligent if we did not stick to that line - think about it.

If you don't know how to adjust to CO2, then at least take it to a pro first and also try to find out what changes need to be made to ensure it doesn't void your insurance. I'd be very nervous driving my bus without the necessary paperwork to prove that my LPG installation met legal requirements. We all like to save money but there has to be a compromise even there. Even if you can adjust the levels, you have to ask yourself whether the installation meets the criteria that would be on an assessors check list, if it doesn't, you have much bigger problems, whether its running fine or not. Most insurers cover themselves with a 'roadworthyness' clause and that would include things like a safety certificate for an autogas installation, even if not specifically mentioned. Adusting the mix is unlikely to render your system dangerous but even Steve has mentioned to you before that your system doesn't comply as it is, and thats an important point when you consider that the responsibility for the safety of passengers always lies with the driver, and an assessor will want to see an installation certificate and any subsequent test certificates.

After all, your installation may only need minor changes to comply (get the venting sorted for starters). Better to get that done, tested, and then worry about the emission levels. If you inherited the system with the vehicle, thats a fuel-saving bonus but its no defence when it comes to ensuring it meets basic requirements and given that you've been advised of this at least twice now, you can hardly say we didn't give you the correct information or that you were not aware. If you get it adjusted then thats great but PLEASE get it up to the standards that apply now. It doesn't as it is and in a worse case scenario you may well find that your insurance is not valid. Have dealt with assessors in the past and they are sticklers for fine details.

[Cruz]

I'm in Torbay, I've been told the only 'good' LPG specialist is Marsh Barton, Exeter

Just let me dismount

Despite the prejudices of others have you tried?

Millgate Motors
Paignton
Devon
TQ3 3BJ
Phone: 01803 666606
Email: lpg@autogastorbay.co.uk
Fax: 01803 290990
Credit Cards: No
Opening Times: M-F 8.30am-5pm

[CovKid]

Yep - they should be able to help you. The MOT help guide may also prove useful: http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KarlT]

I'm in Torbay, I've been told the only 'good' LPG specialist is Marsh Barton, Exeter

Just let me dismount


Millgate Motors
Paignton
Devon
TQ3 3BJ
Phone: 01803 666606
Email: lpg@autogastorbay.co.uk
Fax: 01803 290990
Credit Cards: No
Opening Times: M-F 8.30am-5pm

Not those cowboys! They've got more horses than you lot!!

I hear what you are saying & I agree with alot of what you've said Covkid, and it is on the list. When I've got some spare cash I'll look into getting a certified mechanic to have alook.
I personally, just my opinion, think this insurance thing is a red herron. Okay if you are crushed under a 16 wheeler or drive of a cliff, rupture/crush the tank & explode in a ball of flames, but if that happens I don't think you won't be around too long to worry about it.
In reality how does anyone know you were using LPG at the time of an accident. How would they show that that was a factor. I guess it could be relevant in a vehicle fire, though. My current insurance runs out in December I'll ask alot of questions at renewal & report back.
As a side. By law do we need to but a LPG sticker on our buses? To warn the fire-service? (My cash at the moment could stretch to that! Hey, its a start!!)

Now, what was the co2 level again?