Starter motor main positive wire size?

[Helga]

Tesco, Saturday, shopping... in the van... no go... dead... I replaced the starter a few weeks ago, so thought it wasn't that and the battery seemed ok, so hello Mr RAC man! He said the starter was stuck after looking it over so he tow started me and off I went home. Turned off the engine but still no go so crawled under... only to find that the main big thick red wire that goes to the solonoid has snapped at the ring attachment! No wonder it woudn't start! So, my question is, what size of new ring to order? Clearly I can measure the old ring to get the ring hole size, but what about the wire thickness size? Do you just measure the old wires diameter or circumfrance to get the 10mm2 or whatever? Plus is it okay to just 'crimp' this ring onto the old wire... I haven't got a welder or anything to make sure! Well, not a welder... would a normal soldering iron do it for such a heavy duty wire?

Thanks in advance!!

[tezza]

try maplins, i would crimp and then solder, good luck,by the way wire sizes are cross sectional area.

[dugcati]

can remember off the top of my head but the nut is a 13mm nut -if you have a nut/bolt in your garage with 13mm head then that should tell you (think it's 10mm diameter).... as for soldering you can do it but it takes ages!

Remember to disconnect your battery before fiddling with the cables - bodywork+live cables=sparks!

[Helga]

Brilliant thanks...

So measure the cable copper wire's diameter (ie across) for that dimension, and crimp and solder... with normal soldering iron, will take ages... but works?

Brilliant!

Thank you.

[dugcati]

might be worth heating up the end over the gas hob 1st to put enough heat into it to assist the soldering iron

[Helga]

We are talking about a normal small home soldering iron here aren't we? The sort you do little wires with? That's what I'm talking about...

It will be hard to heat the wire though as it's under the van with almost no free play, it will have to be an axle stand job as it is...

Again...

Five hours under the thing for the starter...

It's a jolly good job I've fallen in love with this van

[CovKid]

Not a small circuit soldering iron. Aldi often has soldering kits in with two irons, a small and a large although if pushed you could actually solder it over a gas ring or well-aimed blow torch

[dugcati]

aye normal home soldering iron - as long as you pre-heat the end and focus on one part of the cable it should go - it will take a while though! also you'll need to get it so the end sits on the cable and it all holds itself as not only do you have to feed the solder and heat it up it's gonna get hot with that amount of cable/metal and solder.

Don't get a gas blow torch on it as it will kill the flux in the solder and it'll never take/you'll get dry joints (no not your knees or elbow joints!)

[Oldiebut goodie]

Using a blow torch is easy - you don't use it to heat the solder - just the fitting. There is no way it has any effect on the flux or cause dry joints. You are obviously overheating your work. I do all my fittings like that - battery terminals, relay terminals, starter motor terminals etc. (I refuse to use crimped joints due to the resistance that builds up due to corrosion - seen it happen too often on boat engines).
Clamp the cable in a vice or a split piece of tube vertically so that you don't burn the insulation back to far, heat the fitting and feed the solder in. Easy.
Even a 200w home soldering iron would have trouble creating a sound joint let alone a standard type which most people would have - usually 40 to 80w jobbies.

[Helga]

Thank you, although the problem is that the end of the wire is under the van!! Quite a big job I suspect to get the whole length of wire out all the way back to the battery...

[Red Westie]

It is obvious from reading these replies that some 'advice' is coming from people who have never 'actually' soldered a terminal this big to a copper wire this heavy.
There is no way on this earth that a normal (even high powered) soldering iron can produce enough heat to warm the terminal and wire end sufficiently for the solder to flow! even pre-heating, as some have suggested, won't work, how long do you think it stays warm? a small blow torch maybe, possibly a blow torch adapter on a good gas soldering iron, clean the copper so it is brite and use good thick solder wire either pre-fluxed or with plenty of flux paste applied.
One thing is for sure, this connection needs to be 100% to carry the kind of amperage (anything from 150 to 250 amps) the starter needs to turn on those cold mornings, otherwise it will crank slowly and heat that joint up evertime you try to start the engine, eventually melting the cable or just taking you back to square one again with another breakdown.
Martin

[Oldiebut goodie]

It is obvious from reading these replies that some 'advice' is coming from people who have never 'actually' soldered a terminal this big to a copper wire this heavy.
There is no way on this earth ............
Martin

Maybe they are not on this earth - it is Saturday night after all

1219.gif

[Red Westie]

Yeah! you're probably right....but I just have this image of Helga sitting there, soldering iron in hand, trying to get the cable end hot enough for the solder to flow and growing a beard in the process lol (if Helga is a man of course)
Martin

[Helga]

Ha ha...

Maybe I am and maybe I'm not... right, I'm off for a week taking school children to Belgium... great! THEN when I get back I'll simply crimp the end on and when she next goes in to my local garage I'll get THEM to make sure the bugger is properly conected! Job sorted ha ha...

More expense of course, but not much more than buying a blow torch! I can just see myself meting half the side of the van all for a little solder..

Thanks for all the advice guys!

[Red Westie]

Strange coincidence but our van is called Helga.......like a hairy armpitted German shot putter