Diesel engine jumpy and smoky when starting from cold

Post by **airhead** » 05 Apr 2006, 22:37

When I start the engine in my van (1.6TD) its very jumpy and doesnt want to settle down and idle for about half a minute. It puts out lots of white smoke too which smells of diesel. I have to rev it up just to keep it going. I am using the choke. It wont stay running at all without the choke. This happens even in summer. I got the heater plugs replaced. They were knackered anyway but it made very little difference even after they were replaced. Im thinking along the lines of a blocked injector but Im not too sure as my knowledge of diesel engines isnt as good as my knowledge of petrol engines. I havent a clue what goes on inside an injector pump for example. So has anyone any ideas on this one? Its annoying cause Ive heard other vehicles starting in the morning with the same engine and a lot more mileage (mine only has 45000) and theres no problems with them at all! Ive replaced the fuel filter, my new heater plugs are definitely all working cause Ive checked them, and the only other thing I can think of is that the timing belt needs replacing, which it does, and thats putting out the pump timing.

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 05 Apr 2006, 23:05

Set the tappets.
Set the pump timing.
You gotta do these first before you can start anything else

Post by **airhead** » 06 Apr 2006, 07:40

It will have hydraulic lifters. Its a 92 syncro. Ill be doing the pump timing soon though when I get my T belt changed.

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 06 Apr 2006, 08:15

If you haven't got the injectors cleaned, get them done. If it's only done 45,000 miles in the past 14 years it may well be coked to hell and back. Get some injector cleaner through the tank ASAP as a first port of call and take it from there.

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 06 Apr 2006, 16:33

It WON'T have hydraulic lifters if it's original.
This is why they cause problems because people think they are hydraulic and they aren't!
They are bucket and shims which either require the cam out to set or use special tools to compress valve buckets and special pliers to remove the shim.

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 06 Apr 2006, 16:34

Oh, and Diesel injector test equipment on order, will be able to check injecotrs in the next few weeks and hopefully rebuild onsite.

Post by **airhead** » 06 Apr 2006, 17:50

Oh god not the dreaded solid lifters! Ill have to check them so! No idea how to do it on one of those engines though and it doesnt sound nearly as easy as it is in a flat 4. It doesnt sound at all ticky though. Once it warms up its fine too. Great compression and power output. Ill try cleaning the injectors. Im not so sure how good that injector cleaner stuff is though. I might just take them out and clean them.

Post by **Ivorblueun** » 06 Apr 2006, 18:44

injector cleaners do work, i've seen cars with similar symptons to yours cured having only done a few miles I've always used STP's but i'm sure other have there own preferences and for a fiver its a lot less hasle and as Diamond says worth trying for start.

Post by **airhead** » 07 Apr 2006, 09:37

Is there a risk of doing any damage to anything with those injector cleaners?

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 07 Apr 2006, 12:47

Is there a risk of doing any damage to anything with those injector cleaners?

I think it's safe to say that if there was they wouldn't be on the shelves in the first place - diesel engines are hardly new technology!

Post by **HarryMann** » 07 Apr 2006, 13:43

Is there a risk of doing any damage to anything with those injector cleaners?

I suppose you could drink it, you might even be able to set something alight with it...

I think it is basically lacquer thinners, nasty stuff in the wrong place, so don't decant it into a vodka bottle..

P.S. Mine's just the same as yours for about 1 minute, thought it might be injectors too, yo need new heat shields if you're going to have them out I think.. GSF.

Post by **excalibur** » 07 Apr 2006, 15:19

DO NOT remove the injectors and try and wire brush or rub off any deposits on the end. You will probably only succeed in pushing crap into the nozzles and making it worse. To clean them stick them in a bowl of petrol and leave overnight, then blow off with an airline.

From the sounds of what you have described it seems more like timing to me. Either the pump has slipped (is this possible, never worked on this partclar engine) or the timing belt could have jumped a tooth.

Worth checking the hoses from the blower to the inlet as well, but that and using the excess fuel device (I am assuming thats what the choke type thing is) would give black smoke.

As for fuel system cleaners, I have never had a problem chucking in a gallon of petrol to a full tank of derv. Certainly reduces emmissions and is what I do every time I take one for test and its high, has never failed yet. One word of caution, petrol has no lubricating properties like derv, so dont run it like this all the time.....a one off will be fine though

Post by **Mocki** » 07 Apr 2006, 15:27

do it to trucks all the time in the winter.......

Post by **HarryMann** » 07 Apr 2006, 18:15

Good info there..
I believe the basic effect of the choke on these diesels is to advance the timing and maybe enrichen as well. Most peeps say they make a big difference to starting in cold weather - mine's a pig now at any time as the starter jumps out the first time a cylinder fires... so TBF ASAP.

I think if we keep these threads going and work to fix as many things as we can get around to individually, we'll sooner or later have 'the knowledge', because when they're starting and running right, they're superb engines IMHO.

Question: Is there a specific injector cleaner for diesels? The STP and Redline ones I have make no mention of diesels and one talks about so many treatments per tank of PETROL.

Post by **airhead** » 07 Apr 2006, 18:47

I got a 1litre bottle of injector cleaner today which comes highly recommended. The basic premise of it is that every time you put in diesel, you put in a bit of this until the bottle is empty and it makes the engine burn off the carbon. Theres measurements on the side of the bottle, so every time you put in say 20 litres of diesel you pour enough of this stuff in so the level in the bottle drops to the 20 mark. I put some in today and it seems to have done something. Theres definitely more power from the engine and its not as smokey. Im going to go out now and see how it starts form cold to see if it made any difference with the little bit I put in. If that doesnt work, Ill try cleaning the injectors using your advice excalibur.

Thanks for the help guys. Ill let you know what the result is.