Help me learn what I should be looking for re condition etc!

[purplecrocs]

I've just started looking at buying a T25 but am a complete newbie and also not used to buying such old vehicles. Its difficult to know what's acceptable re condition for what price, so I'm posting the odd picture here in the hope you can give me some guidance as to what I should be looking out for!

The pic below is from an '88 Autosleeper that I am going to look at tomorrow, its on for £7500 and as its not far from me I had a quick peek at it on the street yesterday, I noticed some work had been done on the body - in the pic below the area marked in red has a seem which looks like it has filler in it, and the area marked yellow has a slightly different paint colour so has obviously been repaired/resprayed. So, should I be concerned about this, is sticking filler in there a bit dodgy or is it ok and just not best looks-wise?

[eatcustard]

£7500 is a little steep for it. (is it private or trade)

Its not unusual to have work like that done, but has it been done to sell or is it an old repair?

Filler is OK if it has been rust treated properly.
All T25s have filler in, it illegal not to have any

[purplecrocs]

no, i just wondered if it meant it hadnt been done properly if it was visible in the seam? or if its perfectly fine but was just a cheaper way of repairing it. I thought it was a bit steep too - its private

[rick]

any t3 that you look at is going to be between 20 and 30 years old. of course it will have bits than needed attention in that time.

if you have a rusty seem or wheel arch that needs fixing, the only 2 options are repair with filler (and new paint blended into old) or a new arch which can lead to all kinds of work. trust me i know

campers are just like school holidays in that the price of everything doubles in these months. its the worst possible time to think about buying and i should think that 7500 tag would be more like 4000 in a few months time. unless the owner is minted

the real trouble areas on these is not cosmetic. as with the body work and bits you see, the rolling chassis is also 20-30 years old. this includes all brake and suspension components. areas to check carefully are the inner sills and arches and anywhere else that water sprays. look for any signs of corosion around suspension mounts and seatbelt mounts on the front arches. pull the rubber mat or carpet up if you have to. if it has a fridge, look for any repair work that has been carried out. check very thoroughly the condition of the gutters and around all window seals.

best thing you could do is to take a veteran along to any viewings.

[mikey9]

The first area I would look at on an Autosleeper is the under fridge panel. Have a look at the seam a couple of inches up from the sill and look for rust, bubbles, repairs.
I reckon every one out there (as they are almost all older than mine...) has either got probs here or has already had a repair there.
Due to the location of this panel - and the awkwardness of getting to the back of it (fridge, sink and cupboards out etc.) - paying someone else to do it will soon get to £800+ I reckon.

Look closer around the holes autosleeper made in the body as they didn't seem to be brilliant at sealing round them - the water gets in and rusts the hidden bits....

After 20 yrs on british roads - the VW protection under the arches is not as good as it was - if this one is like ours - water will have started getting under from the outside edge - flash rusting showing up until it is scrubbed off with TCut for selling (no-one would do that would they!!).

The sealant in the seams after 20yrs is brittle and cracks (hairline cracks may be visibble in most of them) - water gets in - stays wet and rusts. Tidying this can be easy - if you only want it to last a few months in summer...to sell perhaps. However doing it to last more than a couple of years is the subject of many threads on here.

If you want any specific advice on this - come back to me - we have a 1991 Autosleeper- with fresh arches, a step and a couple of other panels.

GOod luck

Oh - for £7500 I would want original panels all round or very good repairs and no visible signs of anything other than stone chip rust - and either a recent GOOD recon or a relatively low mileage (60K?) - oh and spotless inside with everything working - and minimal underside rust....

[Oldjets]

Hi

We have exact same model but two years newer. Would say that that price is a bit high unless it is exceptionally good. Ours has no bad rust in the area you mention as it had been garaged during winters and well waxed. As others say, all vans will rust in seams eventually and I am keeping a very close eye on mine now. All seams between panels should have a thin bead of sealant in them - this is how they left the factory, but after 20 years it will be brittle and either letting water from the outside or rusting from the inside out, or both! If it is filler visible in the seam, it probably wont last as long as proper seam sealant which is flexible and takes up any movement and irregularity between panels. Probably impossible to say if repair under filler has been done well without seeing back (inside) of repair area. Still doesn't mean van is a bad 'un. Might give you something to haggle over. But check all other seams for similar problems - even a good one will have some hairline cracks appearing between panels now but this can be kept under control. Check underneath too - all chassis sections, sills, footwells, fridge vents, windscreen lower corners, wheel arches etc. They can still be pretty good - ours was - but best to know beforehand. VW rustproofing was pretty good at the time - ours has anti-rust wax everwhere on inside of box sections and rear of panels. Autosleepers pop roof is a usually good one - but check sealant around the roof moulding where it joins van top, gutters etc. Again sealant is probably brittle by this time and may have been added to or bodged. The roof corner areas and van gutters can also rust so climb up and check them out. They are great vans, so good luck with purchase!

Oldjets

[mikey9]

Have a look throught his little lot for an idea of what a good salty winter can reveal on your pride and joy - bought in the middle of summer with clean fresh looking paintwork....

This is what the van looked like when shiney....but with most of the faults covered up for sale...!

and


And this is what it revealed through the winter...
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk21 ... =slideshow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After all that work and a lower half respray - it now looks very good from a couple of feet away.....

[Oldjets]

I'm going cross-topic here I know, so apologies to purplecrocs -

Mikey9, looking at your pics, really feel sorry for you - must have been a nightmare to keep uncovering that rust.

Was there no wax rustproofing on the inside of panels and box sections etc? My 1990 Autosleeper has the stuff coating every surface - you can see where it has run out of all the holes in the body (the ones that are meant to be there - back valance and the like) and it is inside all pillars and sills. I bought loads of Dinitrol cans ready to spray the thing and I can hardly find a bit that hasn't already been done. It looks like a pro job wioth plugs in the sills etc. Was this something done after it left the factory by a concientious first owner perhaps?

I hate to say it but I have been taking off all the bits that you have - fillers, bumpers, grilles etc, and have not yet found any significant rust! Am I just lucky then? I will post some pictures up soon to show comparison between what I have and what you found. Promise not to scream too much though! I didn't do my homework on this van - just loved it at first sight and bought it, but it seems to have led a sheltered life and is in good nick inside and out.

Just a thought - the rust in your B pillar behind the water filler cap was probably cuased by the skilled craftsmen at Autosleepers. I am just repainting this area at the moment and what I found was a small area of rusting under a generous coating of stone chip sealer. It would seem that Autosleepers used a standard water filler fitment - note that they chopped off a corner to make it fit the wheelarch on the outside - and on the inside it would foul the B pillar, so they whacked the pillar area with a big hammer to make the filler fit, then covered over the hammer marks with stone chip! When I cleaned it off mine you could still see the imprimpts of the hammer! Luckily, I've cought it in time and the rust was only on the surface in that one little area. Inside of the B pillar is running in wax, so sound as a bell.

Good luck with the restoration though.

Purplecrocs - check Mikeys pics out - that will give you the ultimate guide to van trouble areas...

Oldjets

[DaisyAirHead]

Hi,
Good luck but tread very carefully.
As all the experts say on this fantastic forum.Bodywork is everything!!
I bought my van 5 years ago for £2500 after the last owners spent £5000 on body work and respray and another grand on mechanicals.
I think they lost faith in it.
But I have had to spend another 2 months and £1500 recently sorting the very same issues that were not done right the first time.
But I have a spanking van which I know is as best that I can do for a 28 year old vehicle.Not concours but very presentable and I have undersealed all areas and new panels so should hold off the tinworm a bit longer.
I still get a huge smile everytime I drive her.
If you post your location I am sure some-one close to you can help.
Look at as many vans as you can and compare.
This time of year is the premium time for sellers though!!

[DanO]

That van's been listed on ebay for a while if it's the same one I've seen, does look very nice though!

[mikey9]

In just over 2 years -

We spent £5500 on our 77k mileage 1991 H reg Trident.

I reckon - in addition to the Gas conversion (£1100) and ignoring normal (service items, MOTs etc) we have had to spend:

£350 on panels (Schofields - 4 Wings, fridge lower panel, 2 steps, 2 rear corners)
£1300 on getting the old panels cut out, rust grit blasted, lower half body reprepared - new panels fitted, lower half respray (pretty good job I think - will tell you in 2 years time!)....

....and then the engine let go of it's water....

so £500 for replacement second hand plus £900 to get it fitted - new exhaust, thermostat housing, clutch, seals, etc. - another £600
Sub total £2000

So we are in £10250 so far...... (and I have prob forgotten a few bits).

It is prob worth to sell 6-7k (I guess)

If however we had spent £6000 two years ago on a 3 year old car - it would prob be worth £2500 ish by now (a £3500 depreciation hit)

With the van:

We have had 5 solid weeks away with two kids (Orkney, Western isles twice, West Coast, Chester/York etc)
15000 miles on
We use it every weekend - tis the vehicle of choice for taking babies - always a sink, loo and stove available for child maintenance
We have use of it as a second vehicle if required
I have a room out of the office and away from the phone when i drive it to work!
Have had very large sofa in it for a mate
Have a tall fridge in it at the moment (Hi Tops are great) on the way to the tip for a mate
I can stand up in it
The kids love it
The wife loves it
I choose it every time over the car
.....and lots of other reasons I can't think of at the moment
Don't know how what value to put on that little lot

[purplecrocs]

We're getting a good feeling for whats out there now thanks to having seen/driven a few along with all the advice we've got on here - which has been a great help. We're going to save a bit more a buy in a couple of months after the summer I reckon - possibly a better time to buy. We're liking the Westfalia canvas pop tops so will probably go for one of them.

[rick]

We're getting a good feeling for whats out there now thanks to having seen/driven a few along with all the advice we've got on here - which has been a great help. We're going to save a bit more a buy in a couple of months after the summer I reckon - possibly a better time to buy. We're liking the Westfalia canvas pop tops so will probably go for one of them.

can i ask why a poptop is first choice?

ok for a daily driver they come in handy with carpark barriers and stuff. but as a camping thing they aint a patch on a hitop.

unless you just like the look of tents

[purplecrocs]

Just prefer the look of em... a close to the original van shape while still having an extra bed

[mikey9]

Just to add my four pennorth on the poptop/hitop - we don't know where we would put all the stuff for a 1 and 3 yr old without the extra space the hi top offers. Also offers very flexible sleeping arrangements where you all don't wan't to go to bed when the kids do

The best bit is I can stand up, whilst cooking etc. (at 6'4 - that is nice to do)

Living in the Highlands - we don't seem to have car park barriers to worry about

We might get a couple more mpg with a lo-top