Is this excessive oil use - please help!

[snowythebudgie]

Hi All,

I'm hopefully days from being a virgin T3 owner after I've finally find a 1983 1.9 petrol T3 that I like and feels nice to drive! I honestly think its in great shape and I had a 45 minute test drive on motoroways and it drives excellent. It also has a full service history back to 1983 with one owner for most of that time. There is one thing that I found out that is making me wary though - the lady that owned it told me that I had to beware that these T3 eat oil and to regularly check the levels and top up. When I asked how much she said you had to top up about 1l every 800-1000km. Does this sound excessive? I really didn't smell any oil smells, there was no smoke and definitely no bad sounds from the engine. There was no oil on the road where she said it was always parked? Does this sound like the sort of problem that should make me walk away, should I get it checked out by someone professionally before buying, or is it fairly normal?

Thanks in advnace for the help everyone.

[ghost123uk]

I would say that is no problem.

My (new-ish) recon DG uses about the same, maybe a bit less but who's counting ! ( I work in miles, not Km mine is about 1 Ltr every 1500 miles)

I run on LPG and the inside of the tail pipe does not even dirty your finger !

These engines are a 30 year old design and yours may have done 100K or more, so comparisons with modern engine oil consumptions is wrong.

If it sounds nice, runs nice and doesn't smoke, don't worry

One thing I would say perhaps, is whip the plugs out and check their "look" ( I take it you know what to look for )

.

[snowythebudgie]

Thanks, that really has put my mind at rest a lot. I'm embrassed to say I don't know what do do regarding the plug. I fully intend to learn how to look after these vans soon as I get my first (with the help of people on here hopefully!), but at the moment no....If you could point me in the right direction now assuming I'm a complete novice I'll definitely go back and check what I should do before I buy
Cheers

[ghost123uk]

Thanks, that really has put my mind at rest a lot. I'm embrassed to say I don't know what do do regarding the plug. I fully intend to learn how to look after these vans soon as I get my first (with the help of people on here hopefully!), but at the moment no....If you could point me in the right direction now assuming I'm a complete novice I'll definitely go back and check what I should do before I buy
Cheers

I forgot to say HI by the way, so HI

You will be glad you found us as your are new to all this tinkering.
These vans do require a lot of tinkering ( part of the fun ) and many on here will help you in many ways.

Re plug colour, the Haynes manuals ( all of them ) usually have a general section near the front or back re this, or Google it.

Basically in an ideal world they should be roughly the colour of a cup of tea (assuming running on Petrol).

If they are black and have soft soot on them it indicates a carb or air filter fault (not too serious)
If they are black and have crusty hard lumpy deposits on them it indicates burning oil (usually a biggish problem)
If they are white it indicates the engine is running too lean (carb fault) and should be looked at as this can damage pistons and / or valves.
If they are all shiny metal, it indicates they are new and until some miles have been put on them they won't tell you anything !!

TAKE CARE =
When refitting them, don't get them cross threaded !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND DON'T over tighten them, risking stripping the alloy head thread = BAD NEWS

.

If you need any more help, just ask

[andisnewsyncro]

My experience in our 2.1 recon that we've put 30000km on over the past 2 years, with an oil change every 9000 or 10000 km (5000 miles or thereabouts) it tends to need an extra half litre top up after about 5000 km / 3000 miles.

1 litre every 1500 miles in ghost123uk's engine is equivalent to putting in 1 litre every 2400 km (near enough) so it's not really a similar oil useage as the one you're looking at; a 3rd less than the "worst" figure you've been given. I'm not an expert so please don't take this as a "dont buy" or "do buy" type of post, it's just to give you another figure for usage, (albeit Not a DG engine)

As already said, these are an old engine design and after a good long life it will use more than a modern engine; do you have anyone with experience of these who can go with you for another look / listen / drive, just for a second opinion?

[snowythebudgie]

Thanks, that really has put my mind at rest a lot. I'm embrassed to say I don't know what do do regarding the plug. I fully intend to learn how to look after these vans soon as I get my first (with the help of people on here hopefully!), but at the moment no....If you could point me in the right direction now assuming I'm a complete novice I'll definitely go back and check what I should do before I buy
Cheers

I forgot to say HI by the way, so HI

You will be glad you found us as your are new to all this tinkering.
These vans do require a lot of tinkering ( part of the fun ) and many on here will help you in many ways.

Re plug colour, the Haynes manuals ( all of them ) usually have a general section near the front or back re this, or Google it.

Basically in an ideal world they should be roughly the colour of a cup of tea (assuming running on Petrol).

If they are black and have soft soot on them it indicates a carb or air filter fault (not too serious)
If they are black and have crusty hard lumpy deposits on them it indicates burning oil (usually a biggish problem)
If they are white it indicates the engine is running too lean (carb fault) and should be looked at as this can damage pistons and / or valves.
If they are all shiny metal, it indicates they are new and until some miles have been put on them they won't tell you anything !!

TAKE CARE =
When refitting them, don't get them cross threaded !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND DON'T over tighten them, risking stripping the alloy head thread = BAD NEWS

.

If you need any more help, just ask

Cheers and Hi to you (and everyone else on here). She actually said that the plugs were just replaced at the MOT equivalent a few weeks ago so doubt they will show anything then. I will check the dipstick for white deposits in the oil in case of water, but is there anything else obvious you think I could check to see if its got a oil problem? I'm going to try and see if she will take it into a vw camper specialist in the area and have them check it over for me anyway (the same ones that did the recent APK). I'm kind of thinking now that I'll just live with the oil leak problem as long as its not burning it in the engine? Aren't these things quite difficult to diagnose where its coming from if it does have a leak anyway? I'm presuming that its fairly easy for the garage to diagnose whether the enging is burning oil? Would it have even jusy passed the MOT if it was?

Cheers,
Adrian

[ghost123uk]

She actually said that the plugs were just replaced at the MOT equivalent a few weeks ago so doubt they will show anything then.
Adrian

A few weeks use will be plenty enough to give you a plug reading

[ermie571]

ok,

I have a "tired" engine that runs quiet, pulls well, and stinks of burning oil in the exhaust when she starts, and for a around a minute (maybe less) I will get bluey grey smoke. This is the oil that has run down the rings while standing burning off. I know that she needs new rings. But, while it still goes I am doing the head in a bucket of sand thing!!

Best thing, is to arrange to go back, and ask for the engine to be cold. Start it up, and see what colour exhaust you get. Now, a bit of bluey grey smoke may well indicate oil burning.....then perhaps try negotiating a bit of money off. Members always say buy on bodywork not engine, as mechanicals can be sorted easier than bodywork!

Thing is to know, and evaluate on that knowledge.

Other thing to look for is oil spots ou the hatch - yep, my tired engine has this too as she has a very small oil leak; droplets get caught in the turbulance behind the van when driving and end up on the hatch.

Good luck with your van - all this info is useful bargaining struff - but an honest owner (seems to be anyways) is always a good sign in my opinion.

Em
x

[snowythebudgie]

Cheers Em, I'll do that. Forgot to ask about the engine starting. Is it pretty normal to have to give the key a couple of turns before the engine starts (it sounded a bit sluggish and struggling to start but then kicked in)? Again, wouldn't be happy in a car and would think it need a new starter motor or battery but I've no idea what T3s are like..

[ermie571]

Hi again,

I have one that starts on LPG on the button. Vroooom and away.

Hubby's takes a couple of turns, again on LPG.

My tired one....needs a bit of encouragement BUT>>>> can be improved with potentially a new ignition switch, changing the wire from ignition to starter i believe, checking and remaking all my earths (engine and gear box). Got some work to do, and chances are it will get better. There is also the timing that could need adjusting, the mixture etc etc. Once she has started the first time, she is generally happy to start first time if the break between stops is relatively short.

Em
x

[ghost123uk]

Cheers Em, I'll do that. Forgot to ask about the engine starting. Is it pretty normal to have to give the key a couple of turns before the engine starts (it sounded a bit sluggish and struggling to start but then kicked in)? Again, wouldn't be happy in a car and would think it need a new starter motor or battery but I've no idea what T3s are like..

Not unusual - Sluggish starter motor in order of likelihood.

1 = Poor connections between, starter to solenoid (built on top of the starter), between solenoid and battery, between battery and earth, between engine and chassis earth (latter one is quite common).

2 = Worn out battery (ask if you need to know how to check it).

3 = Tired starter motor - used ones = cheap - new ones not too bad, checkout http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/Car-Parts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for good prices (and on alternators).

4 = worn starter motor spiggot bush (in the bellhousing) = cheap but a bit tricky to get the old one out = see WIKI for "how to" (or ask me )

NOTE = TAKE GREAT CARE when using tools on these type of heavy duty electrical items, and having loose starter motor cables around, a short to earth by accident here can cause serious injury, burns, fire or even for the battery to literally explode !! = Ask if you need advice !!

[dsa]

Hi i have a1.9 petrol whitch i bought in November i have covered about 3000 kms and it has not used any oil the engine has done about 124000 mls

[Rozzo]

what no-one has bothered to mention is that if you fill a vw flat four to the top mark it will burn oil until its about 1/8 inch above the bottom mark,, then hardly burn any at all afer that. if the current owner keeps topping it right up it will keep going back down again. from what i've been told by many long term owners this is fairly normal and it's exactly what mine does if i fill it to the top mark so i don't bother now

[snowythebudgie]

cheers, I hadn't realised that but the woman said that if you have to top up the oil whilst the engine is hot then you just need to wait 10 mins for it to cool down before you try. I'm guessing by that that she is driving when the oil light comes on, which I presume doesn't happen when its 1/8 inch from the bottom mark?

I'm starting to get the feeling that I should walk away from this....We'd half agreed 5000eur if I get it checked out and there isn't a problem, but I'm starting to think that the check won't necessarily be able to diagnose the problem, but the fact that it uses that much means it is there. If thats the case and they've had the problem for 4 years do you think that means it might be likely to get a whole lot worse soon??

[Red Westie]

Things like this certainly don't get better...they always progressively get worse.
The other issue here is MOT's.....with that amount of oil being used (we are assuming most is being burned) high emmisions could be a real problem on the MOT test.
Martin