Caravelle cutting out. Distributor/Hall sender?

[chano]

I've just blown the cobwebs of my 1990 Caravelle, (2.1 petrol injection LHD) which has hardly moved in the last year. Passed its ITV (Spanish M.O.T. ) last week without any problems. A long standing problem i've had with the van, and about which i've previously written on the forum, is the engine ocassionally cuts out without warning; no coughing or spluttering, just dies. If i try to start the engine immediately after it cuts out it turns over but won't start. Wait 15 minutes or so and it starts and runs fine until the next time it cuts out which can be a week, a month, two months...

I've managed to find a VW "specialst" mechanic here on Gran Canaria and he seems to think it's the distributor/hall sender. I'm having
problems tracking down a used or new distributor here, but was wondering how easy they are to find in the UK as i will be home for a couple of weeks in early May.

[Fritz]

Dr Baxter has these dizzy repair kits ,check em out then put your name on one to be collected when you arrive here.....\

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Regards


Fritz,,,,

[VWCamperfan]

A hall effect device will let you know it's going... You get about 100 yards of coughing and spluttering and then it's completly gone! It won't come back to life again until it's replaced.
If it's an ignition problem I would check the idle stabalisation device first by unplugging the two connectors from it and plugging them together. It could be a loose connection problem or a fault with the unit.
The connection into the distributor could also be at fault, try giving that a clean.

[chano]

Thanks for replying, Fritz and Mark.


So Hall sender device doesn't malfunction, just dies?


Mark, my mechanical skills are pretty basic. When i connect the idle stabalisation device connectors together, how will i know if there
is a problem with the unit?

I should have added in my original post that the engine usually cuts out/dies while i'm driving, not at idle.


Alan

[Grun]

Alan,
An easy check of the Hall sender system, is to connect a dwell meter negative probe to a good earth and the positive probe to coil terminal 1.
Then crank the engine. Duty cycle reading should be 5% to 20% (It says here !)
Need to do it when the engine is normal, and in one of its un-cooperative phases, and compare.

When engine stops and wont fire, pulling a plug lead from one plug and connecting the lead to a spare plug with its body earthed on the crankcase, and cranking the starter, will also prove whether you have a spark. If you do it, beware of high voltage, use something insulated to hold the plug body in contact with the crankcase.

Then have to narrow down the cause of no spark If you have none.

Fuel pump/fuel pump relay, could I think cause similar symptoms. Can you hear the pump running with ignition on ? Right side chassis member
about midway between the wheels? Should be able to hear or feel it vibrating.

After reading some of your previous posts....... have you got a digijet or (more likely) a Digifant fuel injection system. Digifant has a Lamba sensor and catalytic convertor I think.
As I understand it there is a facility to get a fault code from digifant systems by means of a fault code reader or even with an LED lamp.
Mike

[wasserleaker]

Hall senders can malfunction when hot, and work fine once cool again! i changed a lot of ignition parts un-neccesarily before i found that out. symptoms were, in my case...... engine runs fine til up to temp, starts misfiring, cuts out and will not restart for 20mins or so, runs fine for a bit, starts missing again.... etc etc.
swapped it for a new one and it's never done that again.

[eatcustard]

I must learn to read properly.

Deleted what I said

[VWCamperfan]

Hall senders can malfunction when hot, and work fine once cool again! i changed a lot of ignition parts un-neccesarily before i found that out. symptoms were, in my case...... engine runs fine til up to temp, starts misfiring, cuts out and will not restart for 20mins or so, runs fine for a bit, starts missing again.... etc etc.
swapped it for a new one and it's never done that again.

It would have been a loose connection on the hall sender, probably a solder connection nearby being affected by contraction and expansion due to heat. As I said, these dont work sometimes and not others, they just die.

Mark, my mechanical skills are pretty basic. When i connect the idle stabalisation device connectors together, how will i know if there is a problem with the unit?

Quite simply you will be able to start the engine again. It may not be a problem with the actual unit itself, could just be the connections into it but it's ok to drive with the unit bypassed like this. Could just eliminate a problem!
As it only cuts out when driving, it could also possibly be a loose connection somewhere on the ignition circuit. Road vibration and bumps etc. could be causing it to loose contact.

[chano]

Thanks everyone.


Mike, I can hear the fuel pump when i turn the ignition on.

I think there is a small VW club on the island, i'll try to contact them, hopefully they can recommend a VW knowledgable mechanic.


Alan

[Mr Bean]

I spent about three weeks trying to sort out my 2.1 Dj WBX with exactly that problem. It would go anywhere between 4 and 57 miles then stop and refuse to go again untill "cooled down" It failed three times under the low hanging High Tension cables and when I lay under the van to fit the solid tow bar I was treated to severe electric shocks which strengthened that theory which turned out to be eronious in the event. The time to run was more or less proportional to the time left standing on that day but became random again after an overnight of "rest". I changed evrything in the ignition line (I mean everything) and checked out the injectors according to Bentleys. I checked out the fuel pressure, the power relays and the Air flow meter. When the starter was engaged it fired briefly but not even enough to spin the motor. When left turning on the starter I got no indication of firing. Aiming a heat gun at various parts including the ECU failed to hasen the failure which appeared to be completely random. Trouble is that everything checked out but it still didn't go. Having been playing with all sorts of engines for about fifty years I was prety peeved at this. Eventually a nice man lent me an ECU and that solved the problem. I hope this is not your problem but your symptoms do kind of match. If all else fails see if you can loan an ECU.
Sorry If I put a damper on it as ECU's can be hard to find.
Cheers
Wolfie

[Grun]

Just a thought Alan,
Next time it cuts out.... if possible allow the engine to 'overrun', don't dip the clutch and glance at the Tacho/rev counter.
It gets its signal from terminal 1 on the coil which is the signal from the Hall sender, via the idle stabilization unit and the TCI control unit.
If the rev counter drops quickly towards zero with the engine still being driven by the rear wheels and the ignition switch still in the on position, there cannot be a signal at pin 1.
Then you have to find out why! At least it narrows the possibilities.

Mike

[Grun]

Mike, I can hear the fuel pump when i turn the ignition on.

Alan,
What I meant was, is the fuel pump still running when you have one of your 'uncommanded stoppages'
Mike

[chano]

Thanks to all for the replies/suggestions.

Mike, I'll check the fuel pump after my next unscheduled stop on the hard shoulder/hill/tunnel...


Alan

[Grun]

Alan,
I came across this,

http://www.lucaselectrical.co.uk/catalo ... alogue.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

while looking for ECU repair or testing possibilities.
Don't know if they are any good. (Standby for 'Prince of Darkness' comments ).
Luc *s.... is an acronym for 'Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices'.

Page 43 has VW Transporter variants listed.

Mike.

[Aidan]

if it's a dj I'd suspect the ignition amplifier or "switch unit tci" as vw have it 191 905 351 B which is temp sensitive ime when they go they go when hot, run when cold then conk out, common part it's off golfs etc. from the same period so should be available from scrappies