Quick hook up question..

[wee bugger]

My van has a fullly working hook up...somewhere in the back of my head i think i saw something about it should be earthed to the van (as well as site)??? Mine isn't - am i imagining this?

[J188]

Never thought of this myself. looking at mine its not earthed to the van, just goes through a circuit breaker and then to the sockets. However earthing it to your van wouldn't earth it would it as it would be isolated from the floor by the rubber tires?

[ghost123uk]

However earthing it to your van wouldn't earth it would it as it would be isolated from the floor by the rubber tires?

True, but it does mean that the van body is then earthed to the mains earth via the hook up supply earth.

I think it might be a good idea, though in a thunder storm it may be less good !!

[tonytech]

I think it might be a good idea, though in a thunder storm it may be less good !!

In a lightning strike it is the 'Faraday cage' effect that will save you rather than being earthed.
The electrical charge finds the easiest path to ground, flowing around the metal body of the van.

Remember the lightning has traveled through hundreds of feet of air, 18" between van and ground wont stop it.

T

[andisnewsyncro]

The installation should definately be earthed to the van. I checked it out with a local van conversion company when my old BBB died a while ago. He did explain why but I'm afraid it all went over my head; but it just confirmed what I had already been told and read about it. I left it for them to do on the theory that if I'm not 100% ... At least that way the install is certificated & therefore doesn't invalidate my insurance.

There was some discussion on this a while back and I think 1664 gave a good argument for doing it properly and earting things but I can't find it now, perhaps it's on the old forum?

Andi

[1664]

There was some discussion on this a while back and I think 1664 gave a good argument for doing it properly and earting things but I can't find it now, perhaps it's on the old forum?

Errr.....I don't think I did actually.

I have never seen a camper with it's bodywork connected to the hook up's earth terminal. The 16th Edition of the Electrical Wiring regulations (we are on the 17th Edition now but I haven't managed to enroll on a course yet) has a Section devoted to wiring in Caravans and Motor Caravans (Campers). This requires the connection of any 'extraneous-conductive-parts' to the circuit protective conductor (earth).

However, an 'extraneous-conductive-part' is defined as "a conductive part liable to introduce a potential, generally earth potential, and not forming part of the electrical installation".

A camper stands on rubber and its bodywork will not 'introduce' a potential, earth or otherwise, although it will be 'at' earth potential.

The regulation goes on to state "Metal sheets forming part of the structure of the caravan or motor caravan are not considered to be extraneous-conductive-parts".

By bonding your van's bodywork to the hook up earth terminal you may well be 'introducing a hazard', as should an earth fault develop on your installation you have effecively ensured it appears on your van's metalwork too. Without this bond, the fault will only appear on the electrical installation, the vast majority of which is insulated. The fault then trips the incoming RCD.

So unless the latest 17th Edition of the regs has torn up this Section of the 16th and chucked it in the bin (which I doubt) you shouldn't. Disco Dave'll know, he's done the 17th (must have got in early, I can't get on a course until September at the earliest).

[Steve P]

we are on the 17th Edition now but I haven't managed to enroll on a course yet

That's the course that Steve is on at the moment. He's in his second year of three after deciding to retrain. Shame he can't find a job to help him gain experience in the field though.

I will ask him to look through his books later.

Bev

[1664]

I will ask him to look through his books later.

Thanks. Unfortunately I'm at home and only have a copy of the 16th here else I'd have looked myself. I've also PM'd Disco just to check I'm not talking out of my lower half.........can't see it changing though.

[andisnewsyncro]

There was some discussion on this a while back and I think 1664 gave a good argument for doing it properly and earting things but I can't find it now, perhaps it's on the old forum?

Errr.....I don't think I did actually.

Sorry mate, my mistake there then. I remember you always advocating doing things correctly and being on the ball with the electrics though & was sure I'd read this very question on here. Must be my age
I'm certan my replacement wiring was earthed to the van's bodywork though as I remember asking the installers if it should be.... Got me worried now, been running it with this install for nearly 2 years.

Andi

[andisnewsyncro]

I have never seen a camper with it's bodywork connected to the hook up's earth terminal.

I might not have explained what I meant very well; it's my consumer unit that's earthed to the body, just been out to check & take a picture.



I don't know if that makes any difference? Perhaps I sould just walk away from this one.....

[1664]

Looks like a bond to the bodywork to me........... I shouldn't panic just yet though as it's academic unless a fault occurs and the RCD should 'trip' in that event. Like I said, I've PM'd Disco and Bev will ask Steve to check too. Who installed it and when?

[andisnewsyncro]

It was installed by Tui Motorcaravans in Bawtry, South Yorkshire http://www.tuimotorcaravans.co.uk/raceh ... ersion.php about 18 months ago. Originally I had the old Westy BBB and the 2 pin socket on the back of the van. Obviously due to its age there was no consumer unit/ RCDs etc so I wasn't over convinced about using it.
I knew Tui were there from previous bits and pieces I've had over (several) years from them, so I took it through to Brian and had all the mains installation replaced and the gas checked / serviced & relaced as they thought necessary. Everything has worked perfectly and was certificated and signed off. Looks quite tidy too throughout the wiring, they also moved the sink electrics out of the gas bottle cupboard. Fingers crossed they've done it right !!

[1664]

18 months ago would have been just prior to the introduction of the 17th Edition IIRC. I'm back in work tomorrow and if I don't get booted out the door instantly I'll have a gander in the 'Guidance Notes' that advise on the interpretation of the actual regs.

There are loads of vans that don't conform with the regs, the 16th says flexible cables are supposed to be used but invariably solid ones are instead, but then even the 16th Edition didn't come in until 1992, later than when these vans were converted in the first place. I'm not even sure if the 15th Edition even had a Section for caravans and motor caravans although it may have had for caravan park hook ups.

[wee bugger]

What have i started??? I took the hook up out of my old van and did a straight swap (i installed the hook up originally...and got checked by a proper electrician who said it was all good) and just remembered seeing something. Thanks for the replies anyway...if its wrong at least its not just me...and this may clear it up for everyone

[1664]

Right then, I've had a look in the 15th (1981-1992), 16th (1992-2008) and 17th (Jan 2008 onwards) Editions of the Wiring Regs.

1. The 15th did not have a section devoted to motor caravans (although it did for the caravan parks (hook ups). This means that the van electrics would have come under the general regulations of the 15th regarding safety, earthing, material selection etc. This means it was up to the installer to decide what was required based on his interpretation of the general regulations. These would have been the rules almost every t25 would have been wired to if converted from new.

2. The 16th Edition recognised motor caravans as a 'Special Location' and gave them their own section under that general heading. As posted previously, (as I see it), the 16th did not see the vehicle structure as an 'extraneous-conductive-part' and it did not require bonding to the earth of the mains.

3. Enter the good old 17th Edition . Regulation 721.411.3.1.2 states "Structural metallic parts which are accessible from within the caravan (camper) shall be connected through main protective bonding conductors to the main earthing terminal within the caravan (camper)". Let's be honest, there's a lot of accessible structural metal inside a t25.

So, there we have it.

1. As you think best 1981-1992
2. No need 1992-2008
3. Need 2008 >>>>>>

SIMPLE!!