brown gunky 'rustiness' in the coolant top up bottle

Post by **dugdog** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:16

I've just checked the coolant level on my 'new' '87 T25 (for the first time) - and the top-up level is below minimum... obviously, I'll be getting some in there...

...thing is in opening up the bottle (top up) I noted that there is a lot of brown rusty residue in there... is it indicative of something very wrong?

also - how do I get to the radiator? I know it's at the front, but where and how do I get a look at it?

I've not actually parted with the cash yet... and I'm hoping it's nothing out of the ordinary... just doesn't seem right...

thanks all

dd

Post by **ermie571** » 11 Jun 2008, 14:22

dugdog,

cooling system is heaps of fun and a nightmare as well! I know - spent the wekend just ogne replacing 98% of mine!!

ok - can we confrim wahat you are looking at? The top up is behind the nuber plate on petrol engines. Is this the one you mean? If so, it should be pinkish colour (or bluish) if had antifreeze in it.

Open up the engine bay, and IF COLD take a look in the main reservoir. What colour is that water? Is it brim full (should be)

If it hasn't had antifreeze in it, that is not good - will rust the studs (?) faster...meaning increased hassle / nightmare if you ever have to take the engine apart - drilling studs etc etc

Assuming its brim full, and has anitfreeze, and its cold......you can check your head gasket by watching what happens in your expansion tank when it runs....with the lid off, fire up the beast.....you will get some spill over, but you should see the water circulating. It comes in the top of the tank. The higher the revs, the faster the water goes! On an engine we had, at this point is started blowing bubbles! Big rusty coloured things that came up over the edge of the bottle. So we stopped it, and sent it off to the recon peeps!!! (only paid £100 for the van....)

do others think I am right here??

Hope this helps

Em
x

oh - the radiator lives behind the front grills. Top one has "scews" that tyourelease with a 90 degree turn. Look up in the top corners, and along top of grill.

My bottom grill is screwed in. Top grill will give you access to the bleed screw, the bottom one to the thermoswitch in the rad that controls the fan.

Em
x

Post by **dugdog** » 11 Jun 2008, 15:10

hi ermie,

it's the top up tank which seems to be basically empty, but with the gunky rusty crap in it...

i tried taking the top off the main reservoir - with the engine cold (last ran for 10 minutes about 3 hours ago... that cold enough?), and the water inside (which was indeed full to the brim) started pouring out all over the place - inital dribbles were a little discoloured (brownish) - but soon flowed with a clear (maybe blueish, (but hard to say - as it ended up all over the pavement) water)... it smelled a bit chemically, so am hopeful re: use of anti-freeze - didn't persue it, as the flow didn't seem to be slowing! so, screwed the cap back on - and came and typed this...

what's occuring? water in the main res shouldn't be under pressure, right?

thank you so much for your time

ddx

Post by **ermie571** » 11 Jun 2008, 15:27

dd

now you got me......you are getting technical.

Good news that it is brim
Good news that it smells chemicalish

Yes.....the main system will be under pressure - very high pressure!

my top up is pink (its all new fluid in the system). If you wanted to see the general state of the water in your system, you could try topping up the dry tank with water, swirl it round a little, then take some out and keep in a glass. Go for a drive, so that the van is up to temp, come back and see what the water in the top up has done.....

is it lower? Is it the same colour?

then maybe the really techncial peeps will be able to help! Are you worried about water loss?

no probs about time......I am no expert, but have learnt a little by sorting my heap out!

Em
x

Post by **dugdog** » 11 Jun 2008, 16:11

ermie571 wrote: Yes.....the main system will be under pressure - very high pressure!

my mistake... i was reading about the top up in the haynes... got confused... sorry.

anyway... so, the point is that the top up tank is well filthy inside... guess I should try to clean it out and refill?

other stuff i'm wondering... when i disconnect the top up from the main reservior (by pulling the little tube off the lid) there is no spill from the little tube on the lid..., but when I try to unscrew the lid of the main reservior... water, water everywhere (not a drop to drink)... is there a valve in the lid? or I'm wondering if maybe it's blocked? hence the low level of water (and general dirty, unused look) in the top up.

1. should I just bite the bullet and get the lid off (and let the water spill out until it's not under pressure anymore??... to have a look at the water - as you suggest...?

If i do, do i then have to keep an eye on the top up and keep filling until it's under pressure again????

2. should I now be concerned about the water lost from trying to unscrew the lid?

worry worry.... god, it's worse than the kids!

dd

Post by **toomanytoys** » 11 Jun 2008, 16:26

If water is pouring out then either there is air in the system (bad) or there is a leak somewhere thats letting air in (Also bad)

the cap does indeed have a little valve jobby in there and the system will be undr a little pressure when hot (it isnt a lot of pressure, prob only .5 bar) NEVER open the pressure can when hot though....

if the coolant is pouring out then you need to find whats wrong.. there are loads of joints and connections ont he system and so you need to check each one isnt wet or "green/blue" fur "growing" at a joint

Get a haynes manual and do a bleed of the system following the instructons in there (although you dont need to get the front up like it says).

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 11 Jun 2008, 16:28

Does the cap on your header tank (main reservoir) look like this:

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6

or this:

http://shop.justkampers.com/product_inf ... ts_id/9869

Tony

Post by **manxman** » 11 Jun 2008, 19:42

both of those are of pressurised header tanks, from differet model/age engines, the refill tank cap is a plain threded plastic cap no springs pipe take offs etc

Post by **dugdog** » 11 Jun 2008, 21:07

Nicola&Tony wrote:Does the cap on your header tank (main reservoir) look like this:

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6

or this:

http://shop.justkampers.com/product_inf ... ts_id/9869

Tony

it looks like the first one..... is that good or bad?

Post by **dugdog** » 11 Jun 2008, 21:32

toomanytoys wrote:If water is pouring out then either there is air in the system (bad) or there is a leak somewhere thats letting air in (Also bad)

ok, but how bad is bad? I've not actually bought the van yet, and need to know if it's going to be a nightmare...

am about to dive into the haynes manual...

any and all advice gratefully received.

dd

Post by **ermie571** » 11 Jun 2008, 22:06

Dug,

coz I wasn't 100% sure of the advice I gave you, I went out and had a look at min tonite.

You will be pleased to know that I too have a browny coloured tint to the platic tank. So man be its sommat to do with the age and staining!

You have driven this beast I take it? Is there anything on the tmep guage telling you it is overheating?? Needle about or just beofre half mast? (ie just before the little red LED?)

When we bleed ours, I find I bve to keep the revs high to keep the water in the system....and not in the road....if I return to idle when the system is basically full, and the lids not screwed on, water everywhere!

So, if you are feeling brave, and you have someone who can help you, get them to fire the beast up, and take the revs to more than idle, then undo the cap and see what the system is doing. The acclerator is just down by the carb - you can work if from the engine bay....see if you can keep the water in the tank. If you can, and the water level drops a little, then it may need a little top up, until with the higher revs the level is brim. Now, maintaining the revs (drop them and its water everywhere) put the cap back on, attach the tube. Can then return the engine to idle.

I you have the grill off, you can crack the bleed screw on the rad (13mm ring spanner - be gentle ) to see if any air comes out. If it hisses, that's the air releasing - tighten as soon as the hissing stops, or you get a continuous flow of water. Spitting indicates a mixture of air and water.

If air has come out, its back to the engine, raise those revs, cap off and top up!

Then crack the bleed screw again. By now you will need a drink, so turn it off, go and have a tea/coffee etc. Let the vn copol and settle...then if yo need to you can have another go!

We bleed ours with nose up a hill - some say you have to, others don't.

oh - make sure you have your heater slider on hot, as this allows the water to flow down the matrix pipes as well. Incidently, learnt from here that if your heater blows hot then cold, or your engine temp is erratic - they are signs of an air block!

Needle off dial, big plumes of steam, and bangs as it blows hoses are signs (fairly distincitve I may add) of overheating. Best to turn off the engine and coast to a local layby and await recovery. I speak form experience!!!

Em
x

Post by **dugdog** » 11 Jun 2008, 22:39

that's kind - thanks for going to the trouble.

yep - driven it for the past week or so... buying from a friend of a friend who has let me have a prolonged 'test drive'... nothing to indicate it overheating (yet)...

just been through the haynes manual, and planning a check out at the weekend and top-up... if it needs it... thanks for tips, i'll let you know how it goes.

thnaks again for tips

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 12 Jun 2008, 06:18

manxman wrote:both of those are of pressurised header tanks, from differet model/age engines, the refill tank cap is a plain threded plastic cap no springs pipe take offs etc

Yeah I know, I was thinking about why the coolant gushes out all over the place when the cap is removed 3 hours after the engine has been switched off.

Tony

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 12 Jun 2008, 06:31

dugdog wrote:i tried taking the top off the main reservoir - with the engine cold (last ran for 10 minutes about 3 hours ago... that cold enough?), and the water inside (which was indeed full to the brim) started pouring out all over the place . . .

Leaving the rusty discolouration to one side for a minute . . . you said that you've got the blue "dalek" cap on your header tank. These contain a pressure valve that lets water flow into the top-up tank from the header tank and back again, when required.

From what you've said above, your cooling system is still under pressure 3 hours after the engine has been switched off. That shouldn't be happening so I'm thinking that the valve in the pressure cap isn't working. Replace it with a genuine vw one (see previous link to Brickwerks dalek cap). The non-genuine caps that are available are notorious for being cr@p.

Once you've replaced the cap, top-up the top-up tank, use the van for a few more days and keep an eye on the level in the tank. If it keeps dropping low then there's a water leak from somewhere that will need tracking down and fixing.

As for the rusty discolouring, if you buy the van you might want to drain the cooling system, give it a good flushing and then put a new 50% solution of water & anti-freeze in it.

Tony

Post by **dugdog** » 12 Jun 2008, 06:33

toomanytoys wrote:If water is pouring out then either there is air in the system (bad) or there is a leak somewhere thats letting air in (Also bad)

ok, so now I'm confused..

...given that the system is under pressure, and assuming there is a leak somewhere... surely that would DECREASE the pressure and the water(/antifreeze mix) would NOT be gushing out when the cap is unscrewed?

do i need to start a new thread? seems to me that the subject matter has changed somewhat...