Long journeys; starting problem (with photos)

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 13 May 2008, 05:04

During a recent trip to Scotland we stopped at services to briefly (e.g. 15-30 mins.) break the journey in each direction. After each stop the van wouldn't start. When I turned the ignition key all the dashboard lights came on as normal but then when I turned the key for that final click and turning of the engine . . . nothing happened . . . just silence!

Had to bump start it each time. Once started, there were no running or cutting out problems and there was no repeat of the non-starting problem during the rest of the weekend, or since returning home (even passed the mot the day after we got home!

), it only happened after the service station stops, during the long journeys.

On the journey north we had the fridge running on the battery setting (but turned it off as soon as we stopped at the services). When the van wouldn't start I put a meter on the battery it read 12.7V, does it need a bit more than this to start the engine?

On the journey south we had headlights and fog light on for some of the journey but these had been off for about 20 mins. before reaching the services.

Very grateful for any ideas about what the problem is.

Tony

Post by **Rozzo** » 13 May 2008, 06:17

hi tone
aint it always the case,,,a perfect break then these bloomin vans just remind us how fickle they are.

i'd check the connection where the small wire goes onto the solenoid on the starter motor tony, if it's a spade end connector (which they are on most starter motors) it could be corroded and loose which could get worse when its hot. if it doesnt supply voltage to the solenoid coil it wont engage the starter so it's the first place i'd look m8.
as we know brass expands a lot when warm so if its a bit loose when cold it could be very loose when hot.
hope this helps you yah old git

Post by **toomanytoys** » 13 May 2008, 07:15

Check the starter motor isnt loose but sounds as though it could be an earth fault or there is a slight missalignment thats made worse when thisng get hot...

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 13 May 2008, 08:12

Clean up all connections onto the starter (sounds like an evening on yer back in D.S. Alley

) and the braided earth one from the chassis onto the gearbox nose mount. Remake any connections where the wires getting green and manky. Heatshrinking any new connections to prevent a recurrence.

If the problem persists I guess it's possible it could be the oilite starter bush in the bellhousing that's fooked ... especially seeing as it only happens when hot

there's an article in't Wiki on how to remove these ... they cost a quid or so but can be a barsteward to remove.

All the best, Ian.

Post by **BigTam** » 13 May 2008, 18:25

Tony, I will pop round Saturday morning mate, with my big clump hammer, we wil get it sorted,

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 13 May 2008, 20:03

Ian Hulley wrote: . . . sounds like an evening on yer back in D.S. Alley . . .

It's like a second home to me now!

Thanks very much for all the suggestions and info everyone, and for the practical help Tom . . . I'll get the angle grinder ready (just in case there's an excuse to play with me new toy!)

Tony

Post by **Rozzo** » 13 May 2008, 21:21

Nicola&Tony wrote:
Ian Hulley wrote: . . . sounds like an evening on yer back in D.S. Alley . . .

It's like a second home to me now!

Thanks very much for all the suggestions and info everyone, and for the practical help Tom . . . I'll get the angle grinder ready (just in case there's an excuse to play with me new toy!)

Tony

just make sure you wear proper goggles cos the sparks will blind you if they hit your eyes right

Post by **matt** » 14 May 2008, 07:48

Mine used to do this, tried alsorts
same engine, same symptoms

In the end Torz Said, And I quote

" For Fcuk Sacks Sandall, its Probelly 19 yeras old, they are £60 from gsf.... Stop being a Skinflint,you know how hard it is to get a 19 year lod working......

Gues what, I did and its started ever since

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 14 May 2008, 22:22

Wise words indeed! We'll have a tinker with the connections and the earth at the weekend but if the problem persists a new starter will go on . . . I really don't wanna be bump starting it in busy little car parks on a regular basis!

Tony

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 14 May 2008, 22:28

Rozzo wrote: just make sure you wear proper goggles cos the sparks will blind you if they hit your eyes right

Goggles purchased today . . . have been grinding a bit more rust off tonight . . it's a lot faster than me wire brush and eblow grease was!

Tony

Post by **leroy99** » 15 May 2008, 07:16

sounds the same prob that i have. i just carry a small hammer. when it happens i reach through the rear wheel arch and tap the solenoid a few times and hay presto (struggle to get the time to sort it properly)

Post by **dave friday** » 15 May 2008, 08:42

"Hot start relay" is one way of fixing the problem,i fitted one on three of the bay vans i've owned.Its a combination of problems,the starter solenoid contacts expand when hot and jam [so giving it a tap sometimes works],the ignition switch contacts ware causing a poor conection,so you end up with a lower voltage at the starter solenoid [and it dosent work].
"Justkampers" used to sell a hot start relay kit but if your ok with electrics you can make your own.

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 27 Jul 2008, 20:32

Here's a bit of an update to the above. Big Tam took the starter motor off and cleaned up all the connections and earth strap and we had no more hot starting problems.

Over the last 3 weeks (approx.) the van developed an intermittent cold starting problem (same symptoms as in my original post above, but on a cold engine) which started to happen more and more often. Had to bump start the van twice today, so when we got home I started re-reading some of the info. on 80-90. Went outside again and hit the starter motor solenoid with a hammer whilst Nicola turned the ignition key and it started straight away!

I'd been convinced that this was an electrical problem because, on that final turn of the key absolutely nothing happens . . . just silence.

Thing is though, when we bought the van we were given a pile of receipts and one is from Nov. 2005 for a starter motor from JK! Do they usually have a lifespan of more than 3 years and could I reasonably expect a free / discounted replacement / refurb. from JK?

Tony

Post by **Mocki** » 27 Jul 2008, 20:56

epect nowt from JK!!

get a replacement from GSF, ( Ringo has no probs with the warrentry with GSF startermotors!) should it play up.

you could have the thing refurbed if there is a local establishment to you, but you wouold be with a starter for a week or so........

Post by **Nicola&Tony** » 27 Jul 2008, 21:28

Mocki wrote:epect nowt from JK!!

Thought as much!

GSF, or a local refurb it shall be then. Thanks Mocki.

Tony