Clutch Problem

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Blue Thunder
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Clutch Problem

Post by Blue Thunder »

Hi folks,
new around here. Recently bought a 1985 diesel rhd t25 and have had bad luck with it so far. Was broken into a week after I bought it but they didn't manage to hotwire it. Then the gear stick broke and had to have a collar fitted to it. My newest problem is the clutch.

The biting point kept creeping closer to the floor over a period of a week and now I can't get the clutch to engage and put it in gear, so it's stuck where it is. I filled the fluid reservoir and pumped the pedal for a while but pedal stayed as light as ever. From reading various wikis/forum posts on this it seems I have a leak in the Clutch Master or Slave cylinder. I have found the master and it seems dry so I suspect it's the slave cylinder. I didn't notice any leaks after filling the reservoir and pumping the pedal so perhaps it's airlocked and needs bleeding?

Can anyone tell me exactly where to find the slave cylinder? A photo/diagram would help a lot. I'm guessing I should bleed the clutch first in order to inspect for leaks, right? Is there anything else that could be causing this problem i.e. brakes and clutch share the same fluid so is it possible that the leak is brake related (my brakes work fine).

Be advised, I have little experience with engines so the less technical language used, the better for me. Hope you can help.

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T'Onion
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Post by T'Onion »

on top of the gearbox
victus in mutuo vicis
Ego mori tu mori

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ermie571
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Post by ermie571 »

Hello and welcome to the club!!

Assuming petrol same as Derv....

As t'onion says, their is a cylinder on top of the gearbox, and then there is the one behind the dash (that you have presumably found.)

I had similar issues with mine....and was advised to check/do the following:

1. locate the cylinder on the gearbox. I had an Aircooled, so could see the thing strapped to gear box by peering through wheel arch - don't know if you will be able to, though.
2. Once you have found it, have a feel...is ist damp. Squeeze the rubber bellow...does fluid ooze out. If yes, seals have gone and you need a replacement.
3. Still with the cylinder, have a look for a little arm on the side, This should move up and down (was told about an inch if I remember correctly). Get someone to pump the pedal....obvioulsly, while it is light and flappy there will be no movement unless sommat else is wrong!
4. top up and bleed the system. Again, best done with pumping assistant. Get bleed kit from local motor shop (about £5). locate bleed nipple on top of cylinder and crack with small spanner. Tighten. If I remember correctly what hubby did, he then put the rubber hose on the nipple, and cracked it open.
5. I then topped up and pumped clutch at same time, until liquid came out that was the same colour as the top up, and was clear of air bubbles. Hubby then tightened nipple (when clutch was depressed I think )

Mine then worked fine, and gave me no more jip at all. I didn;t replace anything....just bled them!!!


Good luck!!

Emma
2.1 DJ 1990 Caravelle (died and gone to heaven)
2.0 AGG (1997 ish) 1984 transporter LPG

Blue Thunder
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Post by Blue Thunder »

ermie571 wrote:
Assuming petrol same as Derv....

As t'onion says, their is a cylinder on top of the gearbox, and then there is the one behind the dash (that you have presumably found.)


1. locate the cylinder on the gearbox. I had an Aircooled, so could see the thing strapped to gear box by peering through wheel arch - don't know if you will be able to, though.
2. Once you have found it, have a feel...is ist damp. Squeeze the rubber bellow...does fluid ooze out. If yes, seals have gone and you need a replacement.
3. Still with the cylinder, have a look for a little arm on the side, This should move up and down (was told about an inch if I remember correctly). Get someone to pump the pedal....obvioulsly, while it is light and flappy there will be no movement unless sommat else is wrong!
4. top up and bleed the system. Again, best done with pumping assistant. Get bleed kit from local motor shop (about £5). locate bleed nipple on top of cylinder and crack with small spanner. Tighten. If I remember correctly what hubby did, he then put the rubber hose on the nipple, and cracked it open.
5. I then topped up and pumped clutch at same time, until liquid came out that was the same colour as the top up, and was clear of air bubbles. Hubby then tightened nipple (when clutch was depressed I think )

Mine then worked fine, and gave me no more jip at all. I didn;t replace anything....just bled them!!!


Good luck!!

Emma


I'm running a diesel. Just to be clear, the Master cylinder is down by my foot, behind the clutch pedal right? It has a flexible hose running up to the reservoir which is behind the dash and another pipe going under the body. I will have a good look for the slave tonight (in the dark) and, if possible, will try to bleed it. Id don't see a wiki article on bleeding the clutch, is there one anywhere?

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ermie571
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Post by ermie571 »

sorry mate....its all a bit different...and I think I may be confused...which is nowt unusual for a Tuesday afternoon.

On my petrol, there is sommat behind the instruement pod....which uyou have to take off to locate it. This is where the brake light switch is - I know coz I have just had to change it..... The reservoir is fixed to this piece of metal. There may well be another one next to my clutch pedal....I have never looked!!!

The other one is on the gear box.

I suggest that you dive onto e-bay and find yourself a haynes manual! Notice also that Just Kampers do their own Diesel fault finding book for the t25 as well.

Sure someone with plenty of diesel experience will be along tonite! In the meantime, if you use the search up there^^^^, and put bleeding clutch, then click the "search for all terms" button, you will get a list of topics with this discussion, and some useful instructions! happy reading.

Emma
2.1 DJ 1990 Caravelle (died and gone to heaven)
2.0 AGG (1997 ish) 1984 transporter LPG

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Grun
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Re: Clutch Problem

Post by Grun »

Blue Thunder,

Emma has got it about right I think. I also have a petrol motor, but suspect the slave cylinder will be in the same area for the diesel.
The wiki bleeding insructions are...

HERE

They come under the slave cylinder replacement heading.

Mike
'Two 'eads is better'n wun even if mine's a sheeps'
Grun
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D reg 2.1 DJ autosleeper poptop

Blue Thunder
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Post by Blue Thunder »

thanks for all the advice guys. I just hope I need to bleed it as opposed to refit the slave cylinder! I assume when I get some stiffness in the clutch again I should be able to spot a leak if there is one.

For the experts: is it possible for an amateur to change the slave cylinder or leave it to a mechanic? Would AA do this? How long is a piece of string?

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Grun
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Post by Grun »

The most difficult bit I found was........

Remove the two nuts and bolts holding the slave cylinder to the mounting bracket. (13mm)

The remainder was easy.
'Two 'eads is better'n wun even if mine's a sheeps'
Grun
Member Number 1250
D reg 2.1 DJ autosleeper poptop

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toomanytoys
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Post by toomanytoys »

Master cyl is under the dash cover behinf the clocks.. on top of that is the resevoir for the brakes and the feed for the clutch master cyl comes off that..
The clutch feed is set higher than the brakes so that it give an indication of a problem with the fluid, BEFORE you run out of brakes... so you may want to check that the brakes are not leaking as well.. as they could have dragged the fluid down...

The clutch master cyl is located lower down behind the steering colomn its a pain to get at and if leaking there will be fluid on the rubber mat/carpets...

The slave cyl is located in the same place as a petrol ( so a petrol Haynes is just as relevant for most things apart from the D/td engine and wiring)

This is on the let hand side of the box but near the top.. if its leaking there will be fluid all over the place.. its not impossible to change, but if the flexi fitting is rusted solid you may need to get a replacement hose to fit as well..
It could be that the flexi or steel pipe has fractured... but you should see that..
Brickworks does a replacement hose for the clutch and can do you a slave cyl too...

AA wont do it i suspect.. will take you to a garage to do it....

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ermie571
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Post by ermie571 »

Blue Thunder....

if you do have to replace the thing on the gearbox, give Ian Hulley a quick PM....he has some useful tips for refitting with different bolts which means if you ever have to do the job again (deep joy) it is alot easier!!!


oh - the fluid can deteriorate, and then loses its hydraulic capacity, meaning that brakes don't funtion to well, nor does the clutch. Finger crossed that is all you need. While you are under van, check each brake bleed nipple for seepage as TToys says!

oh - let us know how you get on!

Emma
2.1 DJ 1990 Caravelle (died and gone to heaven)
2.0 AGG (1997 ish) 1984 transporter LPG

clartsonly
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Post by clartsonly »

my slave cylinder went (on my way home from collecting my camper :D) and they do need replacing if they do. check to see it you have a plastic pipe about two foot long instead of a thick hose followed by brakes pipes leading to the cylinder. if you do it has probably seized on and you will need to cut it to get the slave cylinder off, this plastic pipe is only available from VW and is only about £17, so dont go spending money on second hand or bodge job items instead.

if it is not the slave cylinder put on some goggles and fill the resivour and get someone to pump the pedal whilst you are under the van, the top of the fuel tanks never has waxoil on and perhaps the pipe is split you should here it leaking / get squirted in the eyes, mine did. I simply replaced the portion above the fueltank with a hose made by pirtek instead of brakes pipe.
Dylan = C Reg 1986 T25 1900 Water Cooled..

Blue Thunder
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Post by Blue Thunder »

thanks for the advice again guys. didn't get a chance to tackle this last night so gonan rush home and do it after work before light fades. will let you know how I get on. At least if I could get the clutch working temporarily it would be something.

Blue Thunder
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Post by Blue Thunder »

ok, found the problem. the slave cylinder is leaking. Topped up the fluid and pumped the clutch for ages til (i assume) I got rid of the air. So was able to get it back home at least. Checked the reservoir when I got back and it was down about 1 cm.

Next question: would a new cylinder be much more expensive than one from a breakers yard? I don't trust myself to fit it so gonna give the cylinder to a mechanic and let him do it. Where can I order new parts? I live in Ireland by the way.

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Grun
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Post by Grun »

Blue Thunder,

GSF, (German Swedish and French) http://www.gsfcarparts.com/

71694 CLUTCH SLAVE CYLINDER-FAG T25 5/79 > 11/90 £35.00

Looks like the correct item.

Don't know about delivery to you, but should be no problem.

Mike
'Two 'eads is better'n wun even if mine's a sheeps'
Grun
Member Number 1250
D reg 2.1 DJ autosleeper poptop

clartsonly
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Post by clartsonly »

the first repair i did on the camper (apart from reconnecting the LT lead during the travel back to the owners house) was the slave cylinder.

like I said check to see if you have a hard plastic pipe connecting to the slave or the old setup of rubber hose a bracket and a steal brakes pipe leading to the slave as the nut will simply go round if it is seized and you will need to cut the plastic pipe.

in my opinion dont get one from a breakers as the thing that breaks in it is the pistons seal which is likely to be old too. I paid £35 from GSF for a new slave and about £15 for the replacement plastic pipe from vw (the part number is here somewhere). if the connector undos it is only three nuts accessible from the wheel arch / engine bay and bleeding the clutch with the assitance of a neighbour. 8mm bleed nipple.

good luck... two weeks later I had to change the clutch which was a bit more of a stress, as the driveshaft bolts were allen bolts and needed grinding off as they were rounded.

if you manage to do some of these things on your own you will grow in confindence and put your hand to lots more. my work colleague has just spent £1000 for a new ECU on a ford focus, which puts a few hours on a sunny weekend into perspective.
Dylan = C Reg 1986 T25 1900 Water Cooled..

Locked