Veg oil mix. What's safe?

[T3 Atlantic]

Hi

Right, at the risk of someone out there repeating themselves for the 100th time, is it ok to mix new veg oil with diesel in the tank and run your 1.6TD van on it?
I did so last summer at a mix of about 20% with no problems, but stopped when the weather got cold as I assumed that the veg oil in the tank would become too viscous for the pump.
I have purchased two very simple in line fuel heaters from Germany and intend on putting one before the fuel filter and another before the injector pump. To my mind, this should decrease the viscocity so that the pump will not struggle.
However, I have been reading on here about the veg oil eating the seals in the pump etc. How do you get around that, or is it ok if you are running a fairly low percentage mixed with diesel?
I do not want to knacker my engine for the sake of a few quid, but I would like to add veg oil to the mix to try and keep my fuel below £1 a litre. I certainly do not intend running on 100% veg oil!
Can anyone give me some advice?

[Westy.Club.Joker]

Just a thought - how many miles do you do a year? How much will you actually save? How much is a pair of fuel heaters? How much does a pump rebuild cost Just my 2p worth

[T3 Atlantic]

Point taken my friend. This is not something I am dead set on, but when you can buy corn oil for 49 pence per litre, it doesn't take a genius to work out the savings on say a trip to the south of France for example.
I am just curious whether anyone out there can give me some definitive advice on the deterioration of the pump / injector seals with the use of veg oil as opposed to diesel. It seems to me that the viscocity problem is surmountable, but if the oil eats the seals then thats end of sports! For the record the heaters are about £15 each and I can easily top 10000 miles a year with camping trips.

[Westy.Club.Joker]

There`ll be no room in yer camper for anything else if you have to carry enough corn oil to get you to the South or Fance and back

There`s a garage near here that sells Bio-diesel at around 75p a litre, I really couldn`t be ar+ed with the amount of money you could potentially save against what damage could be incurred, but my mate has started to fill up with it in his Vectra. First couple of weeks it was OK, then the performance got slower and slower until it wouldn`t pull 50 mph on the motorway Scared him a bit as he thought he`d knacked the fiuel system, so he`s back to normal expensive diesel and his performance has returned luckily, this is a fact not third-hand hear-say.

[camper]

You can get a viton fuel pump seal kit http://www.veg-injection-service.com/st ... e51f8dd82e Get your pump seals changed then do a conversion to run it 100% veg oil.I am in the last stages of a two tank veg oil with start up on diesel. http://www.biotuning.co.uk/Home.htm Try this company for information.

[g60steve]

"T3 Atlantic" have a look at this website.
Very useful info and actual results from people using upto 100% SVO in T25's,TD Golfs,Passats etc with mechanical Bosch pumps....same as yours.
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/index.html

General rule is pre 1995/96 Diesels run fine on Veg Oil as these tend not to be TDi's.These TDi's suffer running problems due to the electronic sensors in the pumps.
If using 100% SVO it is advised to use a pre-heater or a two tank system.

All the info is in the link anyway.

[kit]

I run my 1.6 na diesel on about 50/50 mix with no real problems I know a guy that runs a Mercedes van on 100% veg oil, he runs around the country stopping at Tesco to re fuel.

[Ruby]

I run my 1.6TD on WVO (waste veg oil) in varying amounts, upto 90% veg with no probs.

When I first started running WVO I changed the fuel filter after 500 miles, then 1000 and again at a following 1000, because veg has a higher viscosity it tends to drag the debris in your tank through the lines into the filter ( as it may normally settle out in diesel).

[DazEv]

I run my 1.6 na diesel on about 50/50 mix with no real problems I know a guy that runs a Mercedes van on 100% veg oil, he runs around the country stopping at Tesco to re fuel.

hi mate wot year is the mercedes and cc

[george]

Hi I know i'm only new here but i've been running single cab on upto 100% for 18 months now. This time of year its only on 50% . I change the fuel filter every 2000 miles and have done well over 10,000 miles with no problems what so ever. On colder morning I tend to let her warm up before driving away, but I do this any with turbo engine away. I have used and new and used veggie oil.
Not sure what type of engine I have as it was a jx, but now has a 1.9 seat n/a engine fitted now.

[kit]

I run my 1.6 na diesel on about 50/50 mix with no real problems I know a guy that runs a Mercedes van on 100% veg oil, he runs around the country stopping at Tesco to re fuel.

hi mate wot year is the mercedes and cc

It is a P reg Mercedes not sure of the cc though, but with Tesco charging 98p per litre he is not saving much.

[Hypnovan]

My opinion is that there is little point in playing around with using veg oil/pure plant oil (ppo) in place of forecourt diesel because without it being properly filtered, heated etc, you run the risk of buggering up your engine. Sure it'll work and yes, you can replace filters but what about the part of your engine which aren't designed to deal with ppo? Sure you're gaining from not paying road fuel tax but is that comparable to doing the job properly and not paying the tax or for new parts for your engine?

I found a company online who supply kits for DIY fitting or you can request that whoever does your conversion for you, uses specific parts.

Check out Elsbett. they are based in Germany and are very good at what they do.

They quoted me about £500 for a single tank conversion kit for a T25 1.6td and another company 'Blooming Futures' quoted me £1575 fully supplied, fitted and guaranteed.

I reckon it would take about 10,000-15,000 miles for that to pay for itself and once I have had my engine and transmission fully checked and serviced, I will give this some serious consideration.

Hope this helps.

[andysimpson]

My opinion is that there is little point in playing around with using veg oil/pure plant oil (ppo) in place of forecourt diesel because without it being properly filtered, heated etc, you run the risk of buggering up your engine. Sure it'll work and yes, you can replace filters but what about the part of your engine which aren't designed to deal with ppo? Sure you're gaining from not paying road fuel tax but is that comparable to doing the job properly and not paying the tax or for new parts for your engine?

I found a company online who supply kits for DIY fitting or you can request that whoever does your conversion for you, uses specific parts.

Check out Elsbett. they are based in Germany and are very good at what they do.

They quoted me about £500 for a single tank conversion kit for a T25 1.6td and another company 'Blooming Futures' quoted me £1575 fully supplied, fitted and guaranteed.

I reckon it would take about 10,000-15,000 miles for that to pay for itself and once I have had my engine and transmission fully checked and serviced, I will give this some serious consideration.

Hope this helps.

The stock fuel pump regardless on any mods is always going to be weak spot.

[Hypnovan]

ppo/ veg oil has the same calorific value as forecourt diesel and yes, as long as it doesn't contain bits of fish n chips and other particulate, it will act like a fuel and produce emissions too. The problem is not heating,filtering and igniting it properly in an engine that has not been modified to process it as a fuel.

As I said, it's a good idea to check with someone better informed than I to guide you. My opinion is that to run an engine on p.p.o requires a conversion and I would rather have it done than not. After all, my Atlantic made it through the 90's and 00's because the previous owners looked after it - I have a complete 18 year service history including all receipts for everything they every did to it at the V.A.G Main dealer's. Why potentially mess up a good runner that took us ages to be able to buy for a couple of hundred quid in road fuel duty?

I like the thought of being able to fill up at a chippy or ASDA etc but not answering questions by a Spanish mechanic about why he found gunk in my fuel lines etc. when we go around Europe in a few weeks. I hope you can see where I am coming from with this.

[andysimpson]

ppo/ veg oil has the same calorific value as forecourt diesel and yes, as long as it doesn't contain bits of fish n chips and other particulate, it will act like a fuel and produce emissions too. The problem is not heating,filtering and igniting it properly in an engine that has not been modified to process it as a fuel.

As I said, it's a good idea to check with someone better informed than I to guide you. My opinion is that to run an engine on p.p.o requires a conversion and I would rather have it done than not. After all, my Atlantic made it through the 90's and 00's because the previous owners looked after it - I have a complete 18 year service history including all receipts for everything they every did to it at the V.A.G Main dealer's. Why potentially mess up a good runner that took us ages to be able to buy for a couple of hundred quid in road fuel duty?

I like the thought of being able to fill up at a chippy or ASDA etc but not answering questions by a Spanish mechanic about why he found gunk in my fuel lines etc. when we go around Europe in a few weeks. I hope you can see where I am coming from with this.

Viscosity is the problem, puts massive stress on injectors/pipes but main problem is pump and cam belt, if the injector produces a poor pattern that now puts stress on head and pistons.

These conversions normally consist of fuel heaters and larger injector nozzles to help flow and relief SOME stress off pump, until heaters have taken effect (fuel pump takes lots of heating) the pump will be working very hard to move the oil. Even when oil is upto temp its still alot thicker than diesel so making everything work harder.

Alot of manufacturers have stated in the past bio diesel is ok in their engines (not veg oil) but have now had a change of mind due to emission control devices not liking it.