2.1 Watercooled petrol where is the fan and it's fuse

[stuartrolfe]

My query is in the title.
I have recently had a camping interior fitted (not by me) and now the fan does not cut in so I need to check out what they,ve done. It would be easier if I know where the fan is and the fuse for the fan.
Thanks.
Anybody know where I can get a wiring diagram for a 1989?

[syncrosimon]

Hi there, I would strongly recommend that you buy a Haynes Manual which will answer all of your questions. Do you mean the radiator fan, the front interior heating fan, the rear interior heating fan or the 12v clip on cooling fan tied to the front dash!! They all have there separate fuses to be found in the fuse box by the knees of the person sat on the left. On the back of the plastic cover is a diagram with pictures of what the fuses do. As yours is a later model it has blade fuses, and there should be a couple of spares and a removal tool on the face of the fuse box. It even tells you what amp fuses to replace. This information is repeated in your hand book, mines in finnish and number 1 fuse is a Jaahdytystuuletin which may or may not be the front radiator fan!! I will check the plastic cover.
Good luck.

I think Just Kampers do a little manual if yours is missing. I haver not seen one though.

simon.

Just checked the cover. Number 1 is the radiator fan. 13 is the fresh air blower in the dash.

[stuartrolfe]

Thanks for the info. It's the radiator (cooling fan) that I'm interested in.
I don't think there's any info on the inside of the fuse cover box.
Any idea how to access the fan itself, do I take the grill off, then the radiator itself.
Stuart.

[syncrosimon]

The fan motor is reached from underneath. Drop the spare wheel, and look up inside. Yours should be the two speed type. The sensor that operates the fan is built into the side of the radiator. Remove the lower grill and it will be on the near side. You can disconect the multi pin plug, and with a short piece of heavy wire connect the terminals. It has one input from the fuse box, shove the wire in that one, then place it in the other orifices. this will tell you if the fan it's self is working.

Are you sure that the engine has got hot enough to trigger it. Mine will only come on when driving very slowly, or whilst left on tick over for a time. The needle has to be a needles width to the right of the red dot on the dash board.

The fans are pretty reliable, as is the radiator control themostat thing, more likley to be the number 1 fuse, or just not hot enough.

[stuartrolfe]

First occured on the Autobahn last week when stuck in traffic.
Needle was at the top and the LED was flashing.
Managed to reduce the temperature by turning heating on full. Needle returns to centre point when cruising.
The system was all OK when I last drove the van a couple of months ago, before I had the interior refitted. I also had a new top grill fitted so I wonder if the multi plug you refer to has been knocked out whilst the grill was out or if the electrics have been tampered with by the fitter.
We ran a test this afternoon, van stationary, got the temperature up but still no fan. Strangely enough, we then put the heating on full but no hot air came out the vents. I think this might be because the system was full of air as we could hear the coolant boiling and the header tank (I think actually its the filler tank) level had gone up substantially.
Stuart.

[Mocki]

you need to read the wiki, how to bleed it is there.......

did you have the rear heater removed when the interior was fitted?

the rad fan won't be switched on by thbe switch in the rad if its only air passing by it.....



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[stuartrolfe]

I have perfrmed the following test:
(1) Checked no. 1 fuse, fuse is OK
(2)Bridged the terminals in the multiplug that connect to the temp sensor in the rad (fan does not come on).
(3) Put a test lamp to that connector, live was seen on one terminal.
(4)Connected the fan directly to a car battery, fan motor worked OK.

Unfortunatley before doing (4) we took the live feed from the multiplug that connect to the temp sensor and an earth connected to an arbitrary point on the van and bridged 2 terminal in the fan multiplug. Upon doing so we heard a click, probably a fuse breaking and from this point could not repeat (3) with the same result i.e. the live feed to the sensor is no longer live.

So my question now is any idea what fuse might have blown, I have checked all the visible ones in the fuse box and all are OK. Could it be a relay mafunction.
I would also like to know the purpose of the 3rd exta lead into the temp sensor and the 3rd extra into the fan. This would help me to trace the problem above.

Back to the initial problem, Mocki's post would suggest that the fan does not cut in when the coolant system is full of air (and needs bleeding). Is this determined by the same sensor as the coolant fluid level sensor?

Thanks for all the help.

[Mocki]

if there is no water at the temp switch in the rad, it won't switch.... the fan at the rad only works off the sender switch in the rad,
the sender in the header tank works the coolant low level flashing light, the temp sender in or nr the thermostat housing works the guage AND the high temp light ( same flashing led as low coolant warning light.)

give the sender in the rad a new power feed from the spare in the fuse box, its simply a temp operated switch, live in live out, so if you fed neg to one side of it and it blew something , chances are it was working, and it was the that blew when you shorted it to neg.

[stuartrolfe]

I think that the fitter of my new interior had disconnected the Earth from the fan (not at the fan itself cos that looks Ok, but somewhere near the fuse box).
What I would like to do now is to run a new Earth then restore power to the temp sensor in the rad but I don't know what fuse has blown, all the visible ones look OK, are there any in line fuses any where? Or could somethin else have gone?

Any ideas about how I broke the temp sensor live feed?
Thanks
Stuart.

[Mocki]

give the sender in the rad a new power feed from the spare in the fuse box,


as far as i remember the fan is earthed to a bolt under the van , or on later vans just inside near the gear stick , not behind the fuse box ?

give it a new earth too , just remember that brown is neg on these vans

[syncrosimon]

I have had a look at the wiring diagram for a 1988/1989 american model t25. I think you have blown the radiator cooling fan relay (2nd stage) which is relay number 5. This relay is (looking at the fuse box) on the main body of the box, on the second row up 2nd in from the right.
if you pm me with your e-mail i will send you a copy of the pages which include the wiring diagram.
It does sound like your system has not had enough water in it to reach the temp sensor. It would have had to have lost many litres of coolant though to do this. The flashing dash light comes on when the coolant level at the rear expansion vessel is too low, or the temp is too high. It sounds like the sytem didnt have enough water in it to circulate around the heater unit.
simon.

P.S. did you get the bulk head out o.k?? I have taken mine out now and it makes a great difference to be able to walk through to the back.

[syncrosimon]

Looking at the wiring diagram there should be three wires going to the radiator cooling fan thermoswitch.

1. red/blue goes to relay on fuse for 2nd stage cooling ( over 102 dec celcius).
2. red / white goes to the fuse number 1 30 amp.
3. red / black goes to the radiator cooling fan.

There should also be three wires going to the radiator fan multi pin plug.

1. red and black from thermoswitch.
2. red from fuse board second stage relay.
3. brown earth to point 30 which is near relay panel.

So it does sound like the earth was disconected behind the fuse board.

The power for this relay and the fan all come from fuse number 1.
I will go and have a lokk at the relay and see if it is a standard type on mine. The first stage cooling should still work though as that does not use the relay. The 2nd stage just boosts the power, the first stage remains on, so should work. I have only heard the second stage on mine come on once after getting stuck and using alot of power whilst rocking back and forth to get free.

[syncrosimon]

Yours is an ex ambulance is'nt it??
So is mine, and I have had a good look through the wiring at the front for the fan. Mine seems to differ from that of the wiring diagram I have just described.
1. There is no relay number 5. And no wiring to the back of the fuse board to indicate that it has just been removed.
2. The wiring goes to a seperate relay mounted under the dash, on the A pillar just above and to the left of the fuse box.
3. This has a separte feed direct from the 1st battery which is a thick red and white one. ( as far as I can trace )
4. It has an enormous strip fuse mounted on the plastic relay mounting bracket. This could be the fuse you heard go click.
5. Was yours an ambulance from new, VW list them as a type in the handbook for mine with weights and other things listed. This might be a special mod for ambulances or as mine is a 16" syncro. I dont know and havent got another syncro to compare it to.

sorry to be so confusing.
simon.

[syncrosimon]

One last post before I go to work.
I have carried out the test with a link wire between the terminals on the multipin plug on the radiator. Red and white to red and black starts stage one cooling. Red and white to red and blue makes a little click and stops power coming to the red and white wire. just as yours has. I disconected and re connected the earth battery terminal and this has restored power to the red and white wire. Very strange.
I cannot think why this happens. I have done it twice, and can hear the click you heard, but after removing the earth clamp power is restored when reconnected.
The relay above the fuse box is stage two fan, but i cannot trigger it. It has a 70amp relay which i have tested and is working. This test is described in the Haynes manual, but I cant find the manual to check how they say to do it.

simon.

[syncrodoug]

Not sure if this applies to the 2.1 petrol but on the 1.6TD JX engine there's a 50 Amp metal strip fuse located above and to the left of the the relay plate/fuse box.
If you drop the relay plate out of its fitting you find this fuse more accessible.