Turbo intercooler

Post by **Bilbo Blue** » 10 Jul 2007, 09:26

Anyone fitted an intercooler to a 1600TD?
If so what did you use, where did you place it and was it worth it?

Post by **HarryMann** » 10 Jul 2007, 10:02

No, but some use a Golf GTD one in the n/s rear quarter box behind the tail-light with or without a fan (which often seems to blow air nowhere other than across the cooler's face)... Installed diagonally... the Doka solution

Air can also be sucked down from the high inlet of vans, through a cooler mounted at an angle in the n/s snorkel box and out into the engine bay.
A small (8") fan might normally be mounted to exhaust through the cooler, if its used to suck air through, a fair bit of work needs to be done to seal up all gaps leaks between fan cowling and cooler. Even with a blow through fan that's not well sealed some flow will recirculate, but less important than when its sucking.

Many different sources for intercoolers, just matter of finding as large one as possible that will fit, hence mounting diagonally and having a failry thick core to make up for lack of face area.

Hose bores and cooler inlet/outlet sizes are usually a round 50 to 55mm on this size of engine.

Because of the limitatiions for cooling at the rear, length of piping etc, more and more are going for air-water intercoolers, or charge coolers (same thing)... the 'cooler box' is smaller and can be placed close to the compressor outlet/inlet manifold inlet and the remote water radiator offers a lot more freedom in placement - up-front is of course best unless an assisted fan solution is attempted...

PACE charge coolers are the most common..

Post by **dave friday** » 10 Jul 2007, 15:30

so what are the advantages[fuel,egt power?].
ta.

Post by **HarryMann** » 10 Jul 2007, 17:03

Depends how much intercooling takes place (in reality) and what the charge temps were before... if you start to up the fuelling and power its almost essential and its not going to harm EGTs or power.

Want to put a figure on it (your risk not mine, far too many variables) between 5 and 10% on power, never would give a figure for economy, few measure it accurately long term anyway...

But then a poor installation could route the charge through hell and back for little reduction in temperature

Post by **Bilbo Blue** » 10 Jul 2007, 18:38

Seems a lot of work for little gain.
Thanks for the reply, its given me a plenty to think about.

Post by **HarryMann** » 10 Jul 2007, 21:43

But the most important gain on a Turbo-Diesel, is reliability and longevity at high power output - and that's invariably where they work in a 2 ton flat fronted, slab-sided vehicle.

The performance gains from higher air charge density are usually realised only when burning more fuel to go with it... but the drop in peak cylinder temperatures is a given.

A good intercooler setup might be able to give noticeable better power at the same fuel consumption, using a bit of extra fuelling, provided the engine, turbo and exhaust are all in good condition.

Post by **famous phil** » 10 Jul 2007, 22:19

i have used an intercooler from a mitsubishi shogun (i think thats what it came from),,, it has a thermo switch and a fan mouted to it ,,,, worked quite well on a 1.9td

Post by **dave friday** » 11 Jul 2007, 06:29

we'r off to africa later this year and are looking for ways to keep the engine cool ,hence the interest in intercoolers. we have a 25 minute up hill drive that if driven fast [mostly 3 gear] puts the 2nd stage fan on for 2or3 minutes[air temp 30c].the intercooler would have to go in front of the air cleaner, as the turbo blower motor[it blows air on the turbo] takes up the space in the left rear corner.
any advice more than welcome!.ta.

Post by **syncroand101** » 11 Jul 2007, 06:44

dave friday wrote:are looking for ways to keep the engine cool ,hence the interest in intercoolers. we have a 25 minute up hill drive that if driven fast [mostly 3 gear].....
any advice more than welcome!.ta.

I'd be going for an Oil Cooler, mounted upfront. You can either assemble your own kit (hassle) or Buy one off the shelf. I seem to remember that Simon Baxter was working on something otherwise there are2-3 companies in Germany whom offer it ready to fit, sandwich plate, oil lines, rad, mounting kit, the lot!

On our trip to North Africa, we were fully loaded, climbing some mountain passes - in 2nd-3rd gear on the tricky sections, and my temp only just about crept up to 110. (worth fitting an Oil Temp guage in my opinion as well so you know some of what is going on back there!).

Post by **HarryMann** » 11 Jul 2007, 10:06

any advice more than welcome!.ta.

I also think the oil cooler is pretty important, so see if Simon at Brickwerks has any of his kits.

I'm dubious that turbo blower fan does a lot, compared to letting the engine idle for a minute or two after a hot run, a lot of space and complexity used up, when it only seems to come on after turning off, which one day it might stop doing anyway

A new radiator (£100 ish) often sorts out water temp problems on diesels (if original, after 15+ years, bound to be a fair build up of silt at the bottom and a general degradation in heat transfer)

The intercooler there will also just exacerbate the engine bay heat build-up problem and of course, not do a lot of cooling without some fresh air through it. Water~air charge coolers seem the best solution, although I have seen big air~air scoop intercoolers mounted under the floor just forward of the rear cross member

Post by **PEET** » 11 Jul 2007, 18:25

I have a rather large intercooler fitted on my new van, it sits across the gearbox in front of the engine between the chassis rails on brackets welded on.
No idea what it does or how but i'm going for an oil cooler sooner rather than later, dumping he buzzer of doom n fitting a oil pressuer / temp gauge so i have an idea whats going on back there!

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 11 Jul 2007, 19:41

Finally got my brackets made after going to 3 different machine shops, very frustrating, but anyway, finally got kits.
I just sold 2 this week, going out at £345.
I know it's not the cheapest but mine comes with a fitting kit specifically for the T3 and requires no drilling, and can be removed if needed.
The cooler is a bit on the larger side, 25 row at 235mm core width, it basically takes up the lower grille area.

I only got Diesel kits, not had time to sort a petrol kit, seems that most people wanting oil coolers are Diesel drivers, very few people tuning Petrol engines for some reason.
Anyway, i don't carry them on the shelf yet as they are a tad expensive to have sat around so I would need around a week lead time to order up and put the kit together.

They come with cooler, hoses, adapters, fitting kit, cable ties, oil filter, a thermostatic take off plate and some basic instructions, but it's not rocket science.

I would say it takes 1-2 hours to fit on the floor, a bit quicker if done on a ramp.

Once fitted you will have a useful increase of oil capacity of about .75l

Post by **HarryMann** » 11 Jul 2007, 20:54

The cooler is a bit on the larger side, 25 row at 235mm core width, it basically takes up the lower grille area.

Sounds big enough to do something worthwhile

I wouldn't mind another .75L of oil in the system too!

Pennies, bank, piggy, going in

Post by **andysimpson** » 11 Jul 2007, 21:14

HarryMann wrote:
The cooler is a bit on the larger side, 25 row at 235mm core width, it basically takes up the lower grille area.

Sounds big enough to do something worthwhile

I wouldn't mind another .75L of oil in the system too!

Pennies, bank, piggy, going in

Worry about the egt's first

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 11 Jul 2007, 22:43

HarryMann wrote:
The cooler is a bit on the larger side, 25 row at 235mm core width, it basically takes up the lower grille area.

Sounds big enough to do something worthwhile

I wouldn't mind another .75L of oil in the system too!

Pennies, bank, piggy, going in

Well, it's thermostaically controlled, so it's only going to cool what it needs to, your better having a bit in reserve in my eyes rather than fitting a smaller cooler and wishing you bought a bigger one when it doesn't do what it's meant to.
Also, with what your doing with your engine it makes more sense!