Anti roll bar, remove or keep ?

Post by **matt** » 19 Dec 2005, 08:36

A little bird called Diamond Hell told me some ppl remove these?
having just failed MOT on em,any thoughts from you lot on the pros and cons ?

Post by **Ye Olde Syncrospares** » 19 Dec 2005, 08:56

my orange pick up has been without it for a year now,and to be honest if your driving on colway/greenway tyres your not gonna need one,i know some one gonna say different but if its not sole road car dont bother with it,cj.

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 19 Dec 2005, 09:23

It woz a little bird called CJ who told me he was running without his wot made me suggest taking it off. Iwon't be fitting the one on the latest project..... except when it's in road trim.

Post by **matt** » 19 Dec 2005, 10:34

so, the machos have so much give in em, that roll bars are not needed ??

if so there "might" be a newly polybushed set for sale once the syncros moted

Post by **syncroandy** » 19 Dec 2005, 13:15

so, the machos have so much give in em, that roll bars are not needed ??

I think CJ meant that road speeds will be so low (for safety) that lack of the anti-roll bar wouldn't be a problem.

Andy

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 19 Dec 2005, 14:04

Best some of us give it a whirl and find out how the buses perform on and off road without the ARB and on a range of different tyres.

Introducing an ARB to the Land Rover Defender range has only happened recently in an effort to sanitise the handling for road use. The T25 was road-biased during production, so fitment makes perfect sense as standard.

Taking off the ARB, or disconnecting it is a common mod for other off-roaders, so why not consider it on those of our vehicles which are used predominantly for playing. It should give better axle articulation and traction when on challenging off road sections.

Like I said, I'll be having a look at this in the next few months. The best of it is it's only 6 bolts to fit or remove the ARB on the Syncro - hardly a big deal!

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 19 Dec 2005, 19:42

scuse the the daft question, but what does it look like and what does it do, prevent rolling?

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 19 Dec 2005, 20:42

The ARB consists of a drop link either end, which bolts into the lower control arms, these links then go up to a bar which is bolted to the chassis rails with two blocks, one either side. It limits the amount of roll across the front of the vehicle - when one side is pushed up the other side will have to be forced up too. That it must twist this sprung member means it will resist the 'roll' of the vehicle, to a greater or lesser extent, dependent upon the hardness of the bushes, and the constitution and stiffness of the ARB.

To give you a frinstance, I've just replaced the ARB on the back of my Golf Syncro with a Golf Rallye item. This is larger diameter and hence resists the roll more. This means the inner rear wheel stays on the ground under more extreme cornering, resulting in higher cornering speeds, a more tail-happy stance and bigger, more stupid grins.

Post by **HarryMann** » 19 Dec 2005, 21:55

Stiffening the front tends to understeer and stiffening the rear tends to oversteer (at the limit), much the same as stiffening the front or rear shock absorbers
Together they tend to create a stabilising effect when changing direction at higher speeds as the body doesn't have so much roll inertia vested in it.

They are often used to fine tune a vehicle's handling, in the way that shock absorbers and spring rates are, by playing with their absolute and relative stiffneses - so be careful at higher speeds, you might get a bit of a shock... arbs also contribute to spring rate !

They are not used on all cars both front and back (no rears on T25s), and where the front and rear roll-centres are already about right by design (original Mini) not at all. Some suspension systems have an inherent anti-roll effect by virtue of their geometry but coil sprung Macpherson strut vehicles nearly always have them.
The Citreon 2CV I believe doesn't use them either!
They are more to do with general handling characteristics than absolute roadholding forces, witness a Deux Cheveaux winging it's way around a long sweeper flat out (

) with plenty of grip to spare - long travel soft suspension with low front roll-centre, relatively higher rear - but with a considerable roll angle... but changing direction rapidly and accurately is an art-form in itself

Post by **SyncroSam** » 19 Dec 2005, 23:48

Would it be possible to remove the control arm nut and cable tie the droplinks up out the way for offroad, if it is found to be beneficial? Just a thought, probably a stupid one mind.
Sam.

Post by **HarryMann** » 20 Dec 2005, 01:26

It might Sam, maybe forward might be the way to go, but the main thing is, they don't jam onto the brake hoses and rip them apart -or any chance of doing any damage elsewhere of course.

Try it, experiment, maybe cable tie them to the bar itself facing forwards, just guessing, but same has occurred to me only to be dismissed - trouble is, I can't remmeber why

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 20 Dec 2005, 13:25

That is a possibility, Sam. As Clive says, you would need to be careful where the links were secured. Bear in mind it's only another 4 bolts to have the whole assembly out.

If people are going to start knobbing about with their ARBs be careful with the nut at the end of the drop link. The drop link is tubular steel and can be snapped easily. Been there, done that.

Post by **HarryMann** » 20 Dec 2005, 23:07

If people are going to start knobbing about with their ARBs be careful with the nut at the end of the drop link. The drop link is tubular steel and can be snapped easily. Been there, done that.

Ditto

But they can be repaired.

Post by **SyncroSam** » 25 Mar 2006, 17:12

Sorry to drag this back up, but just wondering if anyone has experimented without it since? I will be seeing what mines like without it on road for a few days (not out of choice unfortunately

)

Sam.

Post by **matt** » 25 Mar 2006, 18:05

ask jen

i travelled 100 miles and it was fine

jens done 200 odd since...over to you Jen ???