Am I crazy ?

Post by **syncroandy** » 24 Apr 2007, 18:34

.. to consider simply rebuilding and upgrading my waterboxer ?

When you start to add up the conversion parts cost, and consider the numerous compromises involved in fitting anything else (eg. subie), and compare that with rebuilding a 2.1 to say 2.3, I must say the pure VW option is starting to look attractive.

Sure it may not be as 'advanced' as the subie, but if it lasts 100k+ miles to the next rebuild, gets me from A to B with a grin factor, isn't that enough ?

Rebuilding and tuning parts are readily available, as many are common with T1 and T4 engines, which have a big following in the tuning scene.

Obviously the waterboxer is completely anachronistic, so then it suits the T3 right ? I really like the idea of running a vehicle based on 60 year old design concepts, that craps on most other contemporary vehicles.

Post by **andysimpson** » 24 Apr 2007, 18:55

Yes

I started on stripping the dj i have today, once i have renewed anything i don't like the look of its still going to be cheaper than a different engine, i won't say anything about reliability with my recent record.

Post by **syncroandy** » 24 Apr 2007, 19:39

best not, eh ?

Post by **Andy syncro-nutz** » 24 Apr 2007, 22:58

TDI TDI TDI I DIDDLY I

Post by **skell** » 27 Apr 2007, 13:00

with the dollar rate as it is now gowesty bits n'bobs are cheaper than they were

Post by **john.e** » 27 Apr 2007, 15:24

skell wrote:with the dollar rate as it is now gowesty bits n'bobs are cheaper than they were

Hi ya Skell, keeping well?

I've just been looking at GoWesty stuff as yet again my 'pro' built engine is having another ***king fit

Was gob smacked at head prices, same as JK rot, but does come with the hit of transport and possible duty, but what nice heads

the 2.5Ltr comes out at about 3.75K pluss carriage and of course the 500GBP penalty if you don't send like for like in good nick back.

Having blow (as near a ***k it) 3 engines in not so many more years I am starting to look at other options, leading light so far is a Scooby lump, like the idea of a EJ25 @ 165BHP and buckets more torque. But hey, maybe silly dreams

My own personal experience with stock WBX lumps is not very encouraging, maybe just my lead right foot

Post by **skell** » 03 May 2007, 12:39

Hi John

You still in Pembrokeshire?

I was about to start the subaru thing then a very tatty twin slider velle showed up in Brighton with a 1.9TD lump. I figured with a decent diesel lump I wouldn't have to give up precious space in a tin top for a lpg tank, and I could live without the speed. Unfortunately all was not as it seemed and the damn thing is slower than my dg engined camper.... and I've been too busy sorting out teething troubles with the velle to get stuck into whats up with the engine, every time I get near to it something else breaks.... but it runs and it drinks very little fuel so nowt to really complain about.

Time someone slapped a vw wbx owning ban on you isn't it?

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 07 May 2007, 21:39

When I bought my syncro it did not have a working engine, I looked long and hard at all the engine options. I decided to go with a standard VW recon 2.1 DJ. The reason being is that I just prefer driving a petrol. My dad has a 2.5tdi syncro T4 which he loves, when I borrow it and drive it to the same speeds as my 2.1dj the benefit in mpg is hardly noticeable. I believe that people who have had diesels conversions drive with a very light right foot as they are very conscious of getting the best mpg. I worked out that if I do 5000 miles a year then a diesel may save me only £200. My 2.1dj can see off my dads 2.5tdi on the motorway no probs, and if he tries to keep up with me his mpg drops to nearly that of mine. When he has a cam belt change every 60000 miles vw charge him £800 including a service, add the initial extra outlay of £1800 and I cant see the sense in a diesel. I like the sound of the petrol DJ, the simplicity, the tourque and power, and the fact that VW engineers spent many years making it just for my van and no other vehicle. I am sticking with petrol. I drive new diesel Ford focus's and mondeo's all day at work, and cant wait to get back in a petrol. When was the last time you saw a diesel World Rally car, or formula one car. I drive my vw to enjoy it, i have a £300 Nissan micra for getting around cheaply.
Phew!!!!! rant over.

Post by **andysimpson** » 07 May 2007, 21:49

syncrosimon wrote:When I bought my syncro it did not have a working engine, I looked long and hard at all the engine options. I decided to go with a standard VW recon 2.1 DJ. The reason being is that I just prefer driving a petrol. My dad has a 2.5tdi syncro T4 which he loves, when I borrow it and drive it to the same speeds as my 2.1dj the benefit in mpg is hardly noticeable. I believe that people who have had diesels conversions drive with a very light right foot as they are very conscious of getting the best mpg. I worked out that if I do 5000 miles a year then a diesel may save me only £200. My 2.1dj can see off my dads 2.5tdi on the motorway no probs, and if he tries to keep up with me his mpg drops to nearly that of mine. When he has a cam belt change every 60000 miles vw charge him £800 including a service, add the initial extra outlay of £1800 and I cant see the sense in a diesel. I like the sound of the petrol DJ, the simplicity, the tourque and power, and the fact that VW engineers spent many years making it just for my van and no other vehicle. I am sticking with petrol. I drive new diesel Ford focus's and mondeo's all day at work, and cant wait to get back in a petrol. When was the last time you saw a diesel World Rally car, or formula one car. I drive my vw to enjoy it, i have a £300 Nissan micra for getting around cheaply.
Phew!!!!! rant over.

Did vw not win the le mans with a diesel. Diesel golfs have been used in various races and won lots of them.

Its what you like at the end of the day, i have both a waterboxer and diesel and both have advantages over each other, the diesel wins big time on torque and not slowing down on hills but is noisy, waterboxer wins on its smoothness but is gutless

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 07 May 2007, 22:12

Andysimpson wrote:- [Its what you like at the end of the day, i have both a waterboxer and diesel and both have advantages over each other, the diesel wins big time on torque and not slowing down on hills but is noisy, waterboxer wins on its smoothness but is gutless]

Totally agree, people really seem to be in one camp or another as far as diesel versus petrol go. I dont find that the vw 2.5tdi is easier to drive because of the extra tourque. When i was towing 1500kg I did, and the tdi was better, no question. But i hardly do that, and really enjoy using all 5400rpm of the dj. with a diesel i find i only use a small part of the rev range, and i just dont like driving like that. I also agree that the subaru engine is much better in almost every way, it's just that it's a subaru, not a VW. I passed my driving test in 1987 in a South african import DG, and now only a flat 4 vw will do.
[/quote]

Post by **Russel** » 08 May 2007, 19:30

I definetly dont drive my 16TDI with alight foot.It is also probable the heaviest and most unaerodinamic van about but i still get 36 or 38miles plus to the gallon.
A lot of the lisbon dakar vehicles are now diesle and vw have been racing and wining with their TDI,s for many years now.
I like the waterboxer but personaly think the tdi (if setup correctly for its aplication) is far superiour in all respects.

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 08 May 2007, 20:46

Sorry, I must seem very anti diesel. I guess you could say that I am a purist and get satisfaction from restoring things to factory spec within reason. My syncro was built with a 2.1 dj and that is how I want to have it. if money were no option then without doubt a suitable diesel would be very much better, and if i lived near to russel then a diesel would be sensible if i were doing alot of miles. I have driven the 174hp T5 which is excellent, and even better is the big diesel VW Toureg, no one can argue with 500ft/lbs of torque!! Also if you watch the Swimcro video on busman.be then a diesel is the only choice. I just have to say though that a fine running flat four is a beautiful thing, window down in third gear, exhaust noise bouncing off a wall, I'm in heaven!!! For me the 2.1 dj is the best engine, I can do everything to it myself, understand it, and it is that type of engine that I have been driving with for 20 years, so I have got issues that probably stop me from being totally practically minded about it!! VW definately skimped on the engine side of the T3, which is the weak point, and I am always glad that resourceful T3 owners will look at ways of improving it. I do still however think that the cost savings of diesels take some time to re-coperate.
Simon.