2nd gear tricky when cold

Post by **pimpdriver** » 08 Dec 2005, 22:35

Hi,

88E 1.6 Turbo Diesel panel van, 5 speed gearbox, 162k miles.

I have just had the gearbox oil changed, and now with the cold weather, I find it very hard to select 2nd gear when it is around freezing. The mechanic put some molyslip in the gearbox oil too, as the diff whines a bit.

Once it is warmed up it is OK. Should I just live with it and go gentle when it is cold. I find taking it out of 1st into neutral, lifting the clutch, then putting the clutch down and going into 2nd sometimes helps.

Cheers,

Steve

Post by **Blingpanzer** » 09 Dec 2005, 07:59

Mine does the same after a gearbox rebuild, new clutch and hydraulics and fresh oil. I rebuilt the gearshift linkage - no effect. Once I've covered about ten miles, it's fine, so the problem seems to be temperature-dependent. I'm about to swap back to genuine Quantum gear oil to see whether that makes a difference.

Post by **skell** » 09 Dec 2005, 12:44

mine too, defo when cold, gets better after a few miles, not using quantum

Post by **kathyshack** » 09 Dec 2005, 13:40

mine does exactly the same too, after just having another box fitted. Once it warms up its fine, so like you say i just take it easy when its cold and don't force it....

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 09 Dec 2005, 15:01

I'd say its down to oil. I have redline oil in the gearbox and no probs at all.

MG

Post by **matt** » 09 Dec 2005, 18:47

nah, they are just old
its all part o the charm

Post by **stuckin88** » 09 Dec 2005, 19:38

I guess using synthetic oil would help cos its thinner when cold---Redline is very expensive tho--dunno if Comma synthetic gear oil would be just as good-------Ive got Comma ep80 mineral in mine--& I find the same thing just got to be slow & deliberate when you move off--

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 09 Dec 2005, 22:54

Swepco is another good gearbox oil. I use it in early Porsche gearboxes as they're pretty finickity (is that a word!!) about oil choice.

MG

Post by **Plasticman** » 10 Dec 2005, 23:26

Oh yes' fernickity', is a word, not heard it used much lately,
Mike

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 11 Dec 2005, 01:14

Thanks for the correct spelling

Will be able to use it with confidence now

MG

Post by **HarryMann** » 11 Dec 2005, 02:03

I'd say its down to oil. I have Redline oil in the gearbox and no probs at all.

Does help, as this is one of it's claims, MT90 is recommended for T25 transaxles, though MTL (the slightly lighter one for VW GTi boxes) is in one of mine.. seems OK, and Comma SX gear oil in another.

This is not all about oil or viscosity either, though a thicker oil would be expected to make things worse in winter.

Many boxes, not just ours, have this problem, of 'slow into 2nd when cold', one other being Lancia FWD boxes of the Betas, Deltas and Prismas. Otherwise, good and strong boxes.

The problem with getting that change wrong and persisting is making it progressivley worse as the sharpness wears off teeth of the engagment rings - Dave at Shiplake Eng. showed me a well worn one as an example the other day, I'll see if I can't get a good photo to show what happens.

There'a few tricks, one has been mentioned - double-de-clutch - slip it into neutral, let the clutch up quickly as you blip the throttle just the right amount, clutch back down and ease it firmly into 2nd gear (no yanking that lever, just firm pressure). All before the vehicle's slowed down too much, so if going slightly uphill, don't bother changing up too early, a common sin. Letting the clutch up when the lever is in neutral, speeds the gears up again, ready for meshing at the correct speed, whereas just blipping the throttle, speeds the engine back up OK, but not the mainshaft as well.

Another, when on the flat or downhill, is to take 1st a bit further than normal and go straight and quite quickly into 3rd. With Lancias, when very cold, you'd virtually have to do this as they would often be too heavy to drag into 2nd, and if you succeeeded, the gradual damage described above would occurr - anyone with much mechanical sympathy would soon know damage was being done.

Another trick when lightweight, on flat or downhill, is to simply pull away in 2nd gear, the clutch is designed as a wearable replaceable item, the gearbox isn't. Don't slip it for ages, hardly any wear at all occurs just letting it in quite quickly with the right revs and throttle.

If you test a vehicle when warmed up and it snicks into 2nd or 3rd going up the box, this is the reason, someone's been assuming that synchromesh relives them of the duty of changing gear considerately, just dragging it in regardless of any complaints or reticence to synchronise when cold. Only the best of the smaller and lighter units can usually cope with this.

Once the baulk rings and synchro hubs are worn, there is less chance you will get a good change when cold, whatever the oil, though Redline does seem to make a diiference, if you can afford it (they advertise it as having an ideal dynamic friction coefficient curve).

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gear ... ubcatID=18

Tech Info pdf

Post by **stuckin88** » 11 Dec 2005, 11:27

Cheers for that answer Harry,-very imformative----so I'm guessin that always makin sure I dont crunch the first to second change & the gearbox should get no worse than it is?----I spose its worth pointin out that(I,ve found) keeping linkage ajusted as per Haynes minimises the problem---

Post by **HarryMann** » 11 Dec 2005, 11:56

so I'm guessin that always makin sure I dont crunch the first to second change & the gearbox should get no worse than it is?-

Yes, just don't even try into 2nd when around freezing outside from coldstart if box is like that... fast idling it a while in neutral will help a bit, though never a good idea to slow idle fro long, engines should be warmed up by driving.

Adjustment isn't really the answer unless it's bad, it's all the joints right throughout the slectors that need to be in good nick, and quite often aren't. Article coming up soon on refurbing the whole lot...

Post by **ermie571** » 12 Dec 2005, 13:24

diff whines a bit

Can you expand on this, please - I have a high pitch noise/whine above the engine noise that goes up and down in pitch in line with the engine revs irrespective of whether at idle or in gear. Its weird - doesn;t sound mechanical, but more like air - v difficult to describe - is this diff whine? Sometines its fairly loud, and sometimes barely audible.

If it is, what do I have to do?

1980 air/cooled LPG conversion, twin solex, one air filter.

Thanks
Emma

Post by **Blingpanzer** » 13 Dec 2005, 08:08

Your mainshaft bearings are worn. Ignore it until you get gear selection problems, then get the 'box rebuilt. Just had mine rebuilt again for a similar problem and it came back whining more loudly... just turn the radio up and keep driving it until you have real problems. However, a change of gearbox oil is a good idea.

Incidentally I tried the first-to-third trick this morning from cold without problem. The question has to be "why is only 2nd gear obstructive?". If I keep gentle pressure on the gearlever, 2nd will slot-in silently after about four seconds, but there's definite resistance before that. All other gears slot-in fine.