Vanagon Syndrome

[davemaccy]

Hey all! Looking for some thoughts/advice.

My van is a 1986 1.9 wbx with a factory fitted fuel injection system.  I've been told they are very rare, but looking online it seems like there are quite a few across the pond in the US. I had a new engine installed in May/June 2021 by the VW Engine Company, and spoken with them and they said it was likely the Fuel Injection System/electrical fault.

A shortened story of the issues; around mid-September I took a trip up to the Lake District (i'm based in NW London), drive up was fine, on the drive back I topped up fuel at an Asda with E10.  On the way back along the M1 I felt a couple of tinnie hiccups, but they disappeared as soon as they came.  I drove the next day around, and she was fine.

Following week I drove with 3 mates up to Norfolk, on the way up it was really bad to the point she wouldn't drive at all, pulled over a did a few checks.  One of my friends spoke to a mechanic friend of his and he said I shouldn't be using the new E10 on such an old engine and to top up with E5.  We drove it 1 mile down the road very cautiously at 15-20 mph and topped her up with E5. The rest of the trip I drove her cautiously but she drove fine.  No hiccups.

I spoke to the VW Engine Company, and they recommended driving her a little harder close to home to see if it did it again, which I did...and without any issues up to 70mph around the M25.

I then drive 10 days later up to Yorkshire and she hiccuped several times on the way up and even more so on the way back. Typically around 50-60mph on the motorway, driving beautifully, and then would suddenly cut out, loose power drop 5-10 mph from where I had been driving and then kick back in and another 20-30 mins of perfect driving.

I came off the motorway a couple of times after this had happened and was immediately confronted while at a stand still not being able to turn her over, turned off the ignition, left 30 seconds, turned on and she was fine again.

I've read a number articles and 'Vanagon Syndrome' seems to describe the issues I am having to the tee.  

I don't feel qualified or experienced to try and fix this myself so need to find a mechanic or auto electrician to fix the issue.  Can anyone recommend any?  Or is there anything else I can do? 

Completely open to ideas, and she does still drive so I don't mind driving her a some way to get her fixed.  I have spoken to a few VW specialist garages and waiting times seem to be at least 2 months.

[Mocki]

Have you search on here , there was a awful lot of talk of this over time, it maybe in the tech archive as well 
most of us have junked the injection stuff and use DG carbs on the 2.1s , no reason you can’t do that with your DH 

as for the e10 thing , they have had e10 for ages in Europe and no issues other than it eats the fake rubber that petrol pipe is now made of unless you buy the e10 compliant stuff . I suspect you had problems after putting e10 in because your timing is set for super unleaded , not e10 and this compounded your electrical issues rather than caused them ….. if you want to use e10 get the timing set to 5° rather than the 10° the DH should be set to 

[Aidan]

where are you ?
was it raining /wet when you had the issues ?

[davemaccy]

@Mocki - thank you, yeah I did search and found quite a bit but nothing specifically on a 1.9 DH.  Thank you RE timing info and also Carb convert info.  How easy is that procedure / how expensive would it be?

@Aidan - Based in Harrow (North West London).  It rained once on the trip to Norfolk when it was the worst - any ideas why the rain would make it worse?  I thought it may have been worse that trip as there were 4 of us in the van...so a much heavier load than when I'm just driving her around on my own

[Mocki]

Swapping to a carb is pretty easy , cost wise , hard to say with secondhand prices how they are these days , maybe a couple of hundred for parts …..

you will need to source 
carb and inlet manifold from a DG 
air filter housing and carb top and duct
petrol pump from a DG or a suitable farcet electric pump ( can’t use the high pressure injection pump you have )
throttle cable 
couple of bits of engine bay coolant pipe 
new inlet manifold gaskets 
some petrol pipe for the engine bay 
a short length ( 4”) of coolant pipe and a bolt for the extra outlet on the bleed rail 


but before you jump ship , stick with Aidan , he knows the injection and it’s issues inside out .

 

[Aidan]

if you have poor electrical connections they are often worse when water is about, these looms are 30+ years old and getting crusty and very few do preventative maintenance on connectors and connections even though a vehicle is quite a hard environment for electricals as the environment is hot, cold, with oil, fuel, water, coolant, all combining to corrosion, plus vibration and disturbance from ham "interfered with" mechanics and bodgers all combine to make for possible issues in a system running simple resistance and yes/no type signals; but the system is simple and the wiring diagrams and knowledge base is available on line so they generally just require methodical diagnosis and often some disconnecting of plugs, inspection and and cleaning with contact cleaner and occasional re-termination where the corrosion is really bad. The components used were top quality and are mostly still available. Good earth connections are important and the sort of thing that gets neglected or disturbed when other work is done, eg. the braided earth to the block from the left side of the engine bay is often removed when it becomes corroded, and engine may still work fine, but it was there for a reason originally.... Hardest bit is finding old school auto-electrician who is prepared to work through it and acceptance of the possible person-hours involved; also intermittent faults are the hardest to track down because only when in fault state will diagnosis be easy, but I wouldn't go carb just as a quick fix, finding a good carb now isn't easy, the Brosal copies have some issues and old ones fished out of some box of bits sat in a shed for years will possibly require full overhaul.

Andy at Syncrosport in Lancashire is our best diagnoser and wiring loom person, but a long way from you. He has documentation on his website.

I would always recommend trying to fix it yourself, getting up close and personal with your vehicle is usually a recipe for a good long term relationship with it, builds confidence in the vehicle and ones own ability to fix it; the diagnostic information is available online, sometimes you have to extrapolate from the various sources but Digijet system is basically the same whether 1.9 or 2.1 or even 3.2 Oettinger, the pinouts on the ECU are the same and the wiring colours are standard, just slight variations between years and engine types

If you are on FB then you should be able to find local auto-electrician but old school ones may not be on the platform, but word of mouth recommendations are always worth seeking out I find

[Aidan]

oh, and only have one key on the keyring that is in the ignition, heavy bunch of keys can put strain on the mechanical switch and the electrical switch that is behind it, leading to intermittent loss of ignition switched live which is essential to everything, I have a hook near the steering wheel the bunch hangs on (bunch has heavy clip for attaching to me so as to minimise risk of losing keys) and the ignition key is on a cloth loop from the bunch

[davemaccy]

Aidan, thanks so much for all of that.  Over the weekend I'll go through all the connections; it could be the case after the new engine install I can see movement and tampering could lead to some loose connections.  I replaced the braided earth in Feb time this year and at the same time cleaned down all of the earth connections, and they still look good so hoping thats not the case.

Keep you posted!  Thanks again!

 

[davemaccy]

Small update; in the week I went though all the electrical connections around the engine bay, cleaned the contact and reconnected.  Drove down the M3 to the New Forest for a couple of nights and drove back today, (touching wood) the issue didn't happen.  I feel like maybe its not the last of it, but definitely feeling better about it.

Let's see how she goes in the next few weeks!

[ajsimmo]

most of us have junked the injection stuff and use DG carbs on the 2.1s
 

Nope, most of us haven't. But some of you have.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[R0B]

[slowcoach]

most of us have junked the injection stuff and use DG carbs on the 2.1s
 

Nope, most of us haven't. But some of you have.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Yes quite!
I had a DH engine too which ran very well on the whole (oil and coolant consuming aside). I wouldn't jump to a carb system, it's not like they're problem free either.
As said, it's all running on resistance signals, so check visually all connections, terminals, spades, and any split/damaged wire insulation. Replace any crusty earths (behind the coil, gearbox nose). Check the paddle moves freely in the air flow meter. Fuel pump sounding okay? (Buzzing, Near the tank, by the fuel outlet).