Elecrtric conversion

Post by **Pat Dolan** » 10 Mar 2007, 23:11

OK, you guys (and gals) might want to laugh me off of the forum, but I am very, VERY seriously considering doing an electric conversion of a dropside single cab. I have located a very sound (so says the owner) 1985 T3 pickup, but since it is in a locked winter storage area, I cannot get dimensions of the storage bin below decks.

So, question #1: anyone got a tape measure and single cab handy?

We are planning on using a 105 HP AC motor and controller, 26 x 12V lead/calcium deep cycle batteries and the VW transaxle, but with very short diff and some wide 3rd & 4rth gears. Anyone done such lunacy in other places? The reason for the cargo bin size is obviously to decide which batteries to use. I can go from a smallish 400 Kg pack to something closer to 800 Kg (with, obviously double the range, and half the payload).

Just so you can sympathize and excuse my eccentricity, we are also doing a Sycnro Westy 2.5 TDI conversion, so I am not completely (or I AM completely) bonkers.

Pat

Post by **mister smith** » 11 Mar 2007, 10:01

Go for it,

You know that electric motors for such things produce almost 100% torque from o revs upwards? You may not need a gearbox at all, let alone changing 3rd & 4th gear!

I considered building a hybrid using the VW 1.4 (3 cylinder?) diesel engine + solar panel + less batteries. A tiny engine like that will give enough charge for driving a decent AC motor,

The world needs more people like you attempting stuff others think impossible. I think its a fantastic idea, so power to ya.

And you would do well to do a blog about it if you do it..

Post by **syncropete** » 11 Mar 2007, 11:27

Check this out! -

http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/vw-air.shtml

Post by **Pat Dolan** » 11 Mar 2007, 14:51

Mr. Smith:

Thanks for the encouragement, but we are not really trail-blazers in this respect. Most of the components are over-the-counter from the USA. What we MIGHT be doing is building a Esprit with some new tech batteries (that will all fit in the tunnel!). The VW is my personal desire to make something that is very simple and high utility. Later a wind&solar charging station will figure in.

Pete:

Thanks for the link. We have already sourced our 105HP AC motors from that source, and will probably use their adaptor plate - but a much more advanced controller.

The gearbox issue is one of lower-speed acceleration. Yes, the motor makes full torque from zero revs, but contrary to popular belief, HP (which is torque X RPM), not torque alone determines vehicle performance, and there is a lot to be had by nearly doubling it for initial acceleration or around-town responsiveness.

Pat

Post by **kevtherev** » 11 Mar 2007, 15:21

fascinating thread ...what sort of range with the 800kg batts are you hoping for Pat? (taking into account terrain and speed).

with a straight gearbox ...how advantagous is that? as opposed to a variable belt drive or similar?
just thinking of the power loss really

Post by **philippacman** » 11 Mar 2007, 18:18

id be more interested in the 2.5 tdi as im thinking of upgrading my talula

Post by **monkeynut** » 11 Mar 2007, 22:13

this might be of some use
http://www.solarvan.co.uk/

"Sniff" I miss my little rascal

Post by **Pat Dolan** » 12 Mar 2007, 01:54

RevKev:

The 819 Kg battery option (26 x 12V in series = 312, nominal voltage for the motor) gives me 35.6 Kw of stored energy. Using the power sparingly, I should get around 50 miles without killing the battery pack off. Not lithium ion (or lithium polymer for the new stuff) performance, but useful for a parts-getter. The T3 is hardly an light-weight, aero wonder.

The gearbox and clutch will be retained to optimize motor RPM for cooling. It likes to be closer to 4,000, with a max of 8,000, but even the stock T3 is geared far too tall (imagine that!) and will be 3rd gear on the open road. The mechanical efficiency or the box (with full synth lube, of course) is much MUCH better than a variable belt. I have a solo racing kart that uses a snowmobile drive, and going from 9 HP direct drive (GX200) to about 13 HP (GX 270) variable belt, the net result in the top end is about a wash (initial acceleration MUCH better!!!), so that drive destroys about 4 HP, or 30% of what is available. Not too good an idea with batteries and all.

Monkey:

Thanks for that link. Never thought of taking a turbine along for the ride (we actually have a spare 400W identical to the one in the link).

Post by **mister smith** » 12 Mar 2007, 19:51

Hi Pat,

Pat Dolan wrote:Mr. Smith:

Thanks for the encouragement, but we are not really trail-blazers in this respect. Most of the components are over-the-counter from the USA.

I know that there are others doing this sort of thing, but you are one of a few, and as such are still a 'trail-blazer' in a way. The components may be 'over the counter', but the will power and commitment to attempt a project like this isn't.

I spent a lot of time researching electric systems for vehicles (purely on the net) over the past year, I wanted to do a similar thing to you, but bottled it...

I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people on this forum would be interested in, if not fascinated by, an electric camper.

interesting what you say about HP, never thought of it as an issue until reading what you said...

Website · Post by **dingleyhythe** » 13 Mar 2007, 13:26

Looks interesting but won't the weight of the batteries eat almost all the load capacity (loosing the engine, radiator etc will help of course)?

Post by **klatuu** » 15 Mar 2007, 23:16

There was an electric van for sale on ebay about 6 months ago, It could have been ebay USA it was linked to from here or the brick-yard, I think they were made for a canadian power company to advertise electricity.

Post by **Pat Dolan** » 17 Mar 2007, 14:32

dingley:

Yes, the batteries will eat up almost all of the payload. If this project takes off (60% funded now), we will build another car with uber-high tech lithium polymer batteries that will allow 250+ km range @ 100 km/hr - but that is a $100,000 US battery pack!! (Obviously, we are not paying for the batteries!!)

The VW thing was my original plan before the "sponsors" jumped on the bandwagon. We are trying to demonstrate the state of the art in back-yard DIY auto technology, to parallel the advancement of general aviation by homebuilders in the '80s. It has got WAY out of hand, so I decided to build my original concept of the low-buck, low range, low payload, CHEAP but useful vehicle on my own. I am not a sparky dude (heck, I don't even like cars with IGNITION systems!), so this is all new to me, and I am shocked (sorry, couldn't resist....shoot, did it AGAIN) to find how much hardware is out there. The electric bus, forklift, wheelchair, etc. business is what drives it, and the spinoffs are more-or-less suitable for automotive use.

The bottom line for using lead-calcium deep cycle batteries (as contrasted with older-tech lead acid) is that I can have really bad range and good payload, or a full day's parts chasing and pitiful payload. If a part is that big, I don't move it that often, so in go the biggest/heaviest batteries I can fit.

Which brings me back to my original question: anyone have a cargo bay dimension for me? Still don't have genuine numbers (the guy selling me the pickup is away on vacation - the nerve!)

Post by **thegamwellsmythes** » 20 Mar 2007, 16:24

Lets make this clear, I know absolutely NOTHING about this sort of thing, BUT.....

Would it be possible to fit some sort of wind turbine to an electric vehicle that provided a charge when the vehicle was being driven? It could be positioned where the radiator would normally be for instance?

It wouldn't add a great deal of weight and would potentially increase the battery life.

By even asking this I'm probably demonstrating how stupid I am but this interesting thread got me thinking (something had to at some point I suppose).

Post by **mister smith** » 20 Mar 2007, 18:22

What you described is a perpetual motion machine (ie no, it's not happening).

The power generated by the turbine would be almost the same as the extra 'load' it would place on the motor, less all the losses in the system.

On the other hand, carry a turbine with you, and set it up when camped to charge the batteries, thats a different story...

Post by **thegamwellsmythes** » 20 Mar 2007, 19:24

I realised that the power it created wouldn't completely replace the power being used, just add a bit of top up to maybe extend battery life by say 10-20%.

I do freely admit to being a moron however and will bow out gracefully at this point.

Thanks for the heads up on electric motors and stuff...