Hi everyone,
I have replaced my rear N/S wheel bearing twice already and have had an irrating knocking/banging problem from the rear N/S wheel after (this time) about 50 miles.
The first time around, I got the wheel bearing changed and went again 200 miles later. The second time around I replaced the wheel bearing housing.
Does anyone reckon that old/worn CV joints (due to very old CV grease?) could cause this even though I could not feel any significant play in them?
I have quickly read the Wiki and my Haynes manual about CV joints.
Thankyou everyone for you help in advance.
Quick Q on CV joints
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toomanytoys
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A knocking sound would pretty much always indicate either a suspension problem, or a cv joint. wheels bearings rarely knock, more grind/drone..
Oh.. did you do the big nut up super tight?? it should be done up to 350 odd ftlbs.....
Could be worn splines on the
You could drop it off and regrease, but if its knocking it prob wont get better...
as a temp solution you could swap lewft and right driveshafts (manual gearbox only) keeping them in the same orientation.. ie. Left wheel joint must now go on the right gearbox outup flange, then the right wheel cv on the left gearbox output.. this reveses the load under power, but on overrun it may knock..., it only a temporary fix though...
Oh.. did you do the big nut up super tight?? it should be done up to 350 odd ftlbs.....
Could be worn splines on the
You could drop it off and regrease, but if its knocking it prob wont get better...
as a temp solution you could swap lewft and right driveshafts (manual gearbox only) keeping them in the same orientation.. ie. Left wheel joint must now go on the right gearbox outup flange, then the right wheel cv on the left gearbox output.. this reveses the load under power, but on overrun it may knock..., it only a temporary fix though...
Well, theres soemthing going wrong isn't there... doubt if allt his is a consequence of an outer CVJ joint that doesn't mainfest excessive wear, unless its totally seized which leads me to say..
There's no quick answer to this so please try to answer each question.
What state are the damaged bearings in when you remove them... i.e. What has 'gone'? That would help when asking the question, as I remember it being asked before...
Logic says its you or the parts.. or rather your methods, or the parts.
Do you inspect each part?
The axle shaft and spacer are critical, do either of these show signs of fretting or scoring: the spacer on the ends, or the axle shaft on its bearing surfaces or locating shoulders? Fretting is wear, surface damage due usually to dry movement, then might show pitting.
How are you fitting the bearings? Driving them in on their outer races, alternating from side to side, with a suitable drift is the normal DIY method, as we don't all have spacers, and presses. Have done many many this way, but just have to take care, don't slip off the edge into the bearing cage, and stop and think if they're not going in as one would expect.
I hesitate to ask , but will, that you're driving big back one in on its inner race
Then there's the state of the housing and the shoulders within it, if they're damaged from drifting the old bearings out need trueing up and de-burring.
the spacer between the inner races I think should measure 0.910 " but have lost my reference on this.
How are you tightening the castle nut, and what torque figures are you using?
Let's see what we can make of the answers and get to the bottom of this?
50 miles is ridiculous, whatever the state of the CVjs and driveshaft..i
There's no quick answer to this so please try to answer each question.
What state are the damaged bearings in when you remove them... i.e. What has 'gone'? That would help when asking the question, as I remember it being asked before...
Logic says its you or the parts.. or rather your methods, or the parts.
Do you inspect each part?
The axle shaft and spacer are critical, do either of these show signs of fretting or scoring: the spacer on the ends, or the axle shaft on its bearing surfaces or locating shoulders? Fretting is wear, surface damage due usually to dry movement, then might show pitting.
How are you fitting the bearings? Driving them in on their outer races, alternating from side to side, with a suitable drift is the normal DIY method, as we don't all have spacers, and presses. Have done many many this way, but just have to take care, don't slip off the edge into the bearing cage, and stop and think if they're not going in as one would expect.
I hesitate to ask , but will, that you're driving big back one in on its inner race
Then there's the state of the housing and the shoulders within it, if they're damaged from drifting the old bearings out need trueing up and de-burring.
the spacer between the inner races I think should measure 0.910 " but have lost my reference on this.
How are you tightening the castle nut, and what torque figures are you using?
Let's see what we can make of the answers and get to the bottom of this?
50 miles is ridiculous, whatever the state of the CVjs and driveshaft..i
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phade
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My type 2 T3 campervan is a late 2.0 litre Aircooled one (1982 model year).
According to my VW booklet the big castelled hub nut should be done up to 350Nm (258 lb ft) and tightened up to the next split pin hole, which is what I did.
The first time around I got a garrage to install new wheel bearings on both sides of the campervan. The rear O/S wheel bearing has remained as it was brand new (eg. no play at all). The rear N/S wheel bearing had far too much play in it after the rear N/S wheel started knocking the second time around.
I had installed the rear wheel bearings according to my VW booklet and I used Frost's wheel bearing drift kit to install them into a brand new wheel bearing housing (from VW South Africa). I also used a brand new spacer (also from VW South Africa) inbetween the inner and outer wheel bearings. I then filled up the wheel bearing housing with CV grease and gently pushed the new seals into place.
I have also replaced the half-axle (where the splines go onto the rear brake drum) with a second hand half-axle. The original one was slightly burred on the inner part of it. I have also checked the tightness of the driveshaft bolts.
On each occasion when the wheel bearings were replaced, they felt like brand new with no play at all.
I could replace the driveshaft since I haven't looked at the condition of the splines where the CV joint goes onto it.
I have also never taken the CV joints apart to check the condition of them. I have now got brand new ones and will fit them next week.
The CV joints on the campervan (like a lot of the bits that were on it) look rather old. The CV boots themselves look complete.
It just seems odd that the same rear N/S wheel bearing keeps going (starts off with hardly and play at all and then after the rear wheel had been knocking, the wheel bearing then has loads of play).
According to my VW booklet the big castelled hub nut should be done up to 350Nm (258 lb ft) and tightened up to the next split pin hole, which is what I did.
The first time around I got a garrage to install new wheel bearings on both sides of the campervan. The rear O/S wheel bearing has remained as it was brand new (eg. no play at all). The rear N/S wheel bearing had far too much play in it after the rear N/S wheel started knocking the second time around.
I had installed the rear wheel bearings according to my VW booklet and I used Frost's wheel bearing drift kit to install them into a brand new wheel bearing housing (from VW South Africa). I also used a brand new spacer (also from VW South Africa) inbetween the inner and outer wheel bearings. I then filled up the wheel bearing housing with CV grease and gently pushed the new seals into place.
I have also replaced the half-axle (where the splines go onto the rear brake drum) with a second hand half-axle. The original one was slightly burred on the inner part of it. I have also checked the tightness of the driveshaft bolts.
On each occasion when the wheel bearings were replaced, they felt like brand new with no play at all.
I could replace the driveshaft since I haven't looked at the condition of the splines where the CV joint goes onto it.
I have also never taken the CV joints apart to check the condition of them. I have now got brand new ones and will fit them next week.
The CV joints on the campervan (like a lot of the bits that were on it) look rather old. The CV boots themselves look complete.
It just seems odd that the same rear N/S wheel bearing keeps going (starts off with hardly and play at all and then after the rear wheel had been knocking, the wheel bearing then has loads of play).
Good, thanks.
First thing is that the torque should be 500 N-m about 360 ft-lbs, but that could be a slip of the pen on your part.
If the castle nut is only done up to 350 N-m, whack it up the rest and see how it feels, ven though the damage is done... otherwise
You now need to take that bearing assembly apart again and inspect it for what has failed -
Did it all feel as if it went together nicely at the time? And exhibited no play immediately afterwards, axle shaft rotated nicely with no flat spots without wheel fitted? (some end play, wheel in~out, does seem to plague these occasionally). but not knocking or knocking their bearings out unduly, this setup has been used for many years, and billions of miles accrued and don't have a bad reputation AFAIK.
First thing is that the torque should be 500 N-m about 360 ft-lbs, but that could be a slip of the pen on your part.
If the castle nut is only done up to 350 N-m, whack it up the rest and see how it feels, ven though the damage is done... otherwise
You now need to take that bearing assembly apart again and inspect it for what has failed -
Did it all feel as if it went together nicely at the time? And exhibited no play immediately afterwards, axle shaft rotated nicely with no flat spots without wheel fitted? (some end play, wheel in~out, does seem to plague these occasionally). but not knocking or knocking their bearings out unduly, this setup has been used for many years, and billions of miles accrued and don't have a bad reputation AFAIK.
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phade
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The wheel bearings (and spacer) went into the wheel bearing housing without any problems at all.
When I had put everything back together, I also checked that wheel for any play in the wheel bearings. They felt like brand new (eg. the wheel turned nicely with no rough spots and no play at all).
Also I noticed in my VW booklet it mentions the 500 Nm torque for vehciles which have a 10mm split pin. My one has a 6mm split pin (I'll double check and measure it with my verniers to make sure), where my VW booklet mentions that it should be tightened to 350 Nm. I'll measure it in a few mins/half hour and will let you know.
I will also have a good look at the (brand new) wheel bearing housing and the bearings within it to see what's actually failed (next weekend).
What I also noticed on the old half-shaft (where the splines go onto the brake drum) is slight CV joint ball-bearing wear marks on it.
If you would like me to email you the page from my VW booklet (it's printed in german) then please let me know.
When I had put everything back together, I also checked that wheel for any play in the wheel bearings. They felt like brand new (eg. the wheel turned nicely with no rough spots and no play at all).
Also I noticed in my VW booklet it mentions the 500 Nm torque for vehciles which have a 10mm split pin. My one has a 6mm split pin (I'll double check and measure it with my verniers to make sure), where my VW booklet mentions that it should be tightened to 350 Nm. I'll measure it in a few mins/half hour and will let you know.
I will also have a good look at the (brand new) wheel bearing housing and the bearings within it to see what's actually failed (next weekend).
What I also noticed on the old half-shaft (where the splines go onto the brake drum) is slight CV joint ball-bearing wear marks on it.
If you would like me to email you the page from my VW booklet (it's printed in german) then please let me know.
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phade
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- 80-90 Mem No: 3376
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I just had a look at the size of the slots in the castle hub nut and they measured 6.73mm (6mm split pin).
I also crawled underneath the campervan and had another feel of the driveshafts and traced the knocking down to the outer CV joint (with the vehicle on the ground).
I wiggled the rear N/S driveshaft up and down at each CV joint and felt a very small amont of play on the rear N/S outer CV joint and heard the knocking.
I guess I may have answered my own question.
I also crawled underneath the campervan and had another feel of the driveshafts and traced the knocking down to the outer CV joint (with the vehicle on the ground).
I wiggled the rear N/S driveshaft up and down at each CV joint and felt a very small amont of play on the rear N/S outer CV joint and heard the knocking.
I guess I may have answered my own question.
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phade
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- Joined: 11 Feb 2007, 13:05
- 80-90 Mem No: 3376
- Location: Kent / South East London
Hi everyone,
I have had a look at my american VW booklet and it stated that the correct torque for the axle shaft castle nut indeed was 500 Nm (360 lb ft). The Haynes manual was misleading to say the least, which stated that the castle nut torque was 258 lb ft. This was only correct for the old style castle nut (with 6 split pin holes) and it did not state the torque for the later type 2 T3 (from 1981). I also slightly mistranslated the german VW booklet (I didn't have the american CD at the time) which I thought referred to the size of the split pin holes.
Anyway I took a look at the CV joints and all four had to be replaced. The rear N/S outer CV joint only had 5 ball bearings (they immediately fell out !!) in it and was knackered. The rear N/S inner CV joint was also knackered as well. Both rear O/S CV joints were also very old and the grease inside them had dried out. They were also pretty rubbish as well.
The rear N/S wheel play is still slightly there at the moment, but that could be down to the fact that I did up the castle nut about 100 lb ft too slack !!! I'll tighten that up when I get my Norbar 3AR torque wrench in the post and see if that cures the problem.
I also had a look at the rear N/S inner wheel bearing seal and it still looks like brand new and intact.
I'll let everyone know how it goes after I have tightened up the castle nut properly.
I have had a look at my american VW booklet and it stated that the correct torque for the axle shaft castle nut indeed was 500 Nm (360 lb ft). The Haynes manual was misleading to say the least, which stated that the castle nut torque was 258 lb ft. This was only correct for the old style castle nut (with 6 split pin holes) and it did not state the torque for the later type 2 T3 (from 1981). I also slightly mistranslated the german VW booklet (I didn't have the american CD at the time) which I thought referred to the size of the split pin holes.
Anyway I took a look at the CV joints and all four had to be replaced. The rear N/S outer CV joint only had 5 ball bearings (they immediately fell out !!) in it and was knackered. The rear N/S inner CV joint was also knackered as well. Both rear O/S CV joints were also very old and the grease inside them had dried out. They were also pretty rubbish as well.
The rear N/S wheel play is still slightly there at the moment, but that could be down to the fact that I did up the castle nut about 100 lb ft too slack !!! I'll tighten that up when I get my Norbar 3AR torque wrench in the post and see if that cures the problem.
I also had a look at the rear N/S inner wheel bearing seal and it still looks like brand new and intact.
I'll let everyone know how it goes after I have tightened up the castle nut properly.
