Second opinion on starter motor problem requested / FIXED !!

Post by **ghost123uk** » 20 Jan 2007, 18:08

Hi all

My DG has recently been suffering from lazy starting.
It is definitely not an electrical problem.

It has got to the point where the starter is making a mechanical whirring / grinding noise and turning too slowly to start the motor.

All the symptoms point to the common worn bush in the housing problem ( as per the WIKI entry at http://tinyurl.com/3bgukw )

I ordered a bush, but on examining the old one prior to removing it, it looked fine and does not seem worn or damaged.

I would have replaced it anyway but the M12 tap I was lent was a plug tap not a taper tap, so I couldn't get it to "start" into the bush !!

So before I order a £70 starter motor, is it possible that even a small bit of wear in the bush could cause it ?

I don't want to spend £70 if it ain't going to fix it !!

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:33

not a lot left if its not electrical. then all thats left is bush and motor. is it engaging but not turning? if not then possibly solenoid. If you are friendly with the local GSF they may do a sale or return to give you a chance to try it. I spend a fare ammount in mine so they have been pretty good to me. I dont think it takes much wear for play in the system to cause problems. You might make a drift from a peice of wood to get it started in the hole then tap it in with a small hammer and flat ended bit of metal.

Post by **bigbluebus** » 20 Jan 2007, 21:37

Mine was driving me nuts, sometimes it'd turn over no worries, other times it'd just click, other times nothing at all. But there was no pattern to it.

new starter motor shortly followed by an alternator has sorted it 100%

Post by **ghost123uk** » 20 Jan 2007, 23:58

From the noises it was making it was pretty obvious summat mechanical was wrong.

Although the bush looks OK, I have been advised that it still could be the cause and I would be daft not to change it and see if it fixes it before lashing out on a new starter motor.

It looks like I will have to bite the bullet and get the old bush replaced tomorrow ( I got 2 from JK for £4 incl P&P )

I did spend an hour today trying to get the old one out, but as mentioned, the M12 tap I borrowed wouldn't get a grip as it was not a "taper tap".
Perhaps I should gently whack it a bit to start it biting into the bush !!

It's just that working on your back without the right tools and in this weather, it is no fun at all, and that bush is not easy to get at working like this !!

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 21 Jan 2007, 12:29

I think expanding masonary bolt can do it too.

Post by **ghost123uk** » 22 Jan 2007, 10:28

UPDATE

Well it looks like I was correct with my evaluation of the problem !!

It took me 4 hours before I managed to get the bush out !!
You can barely see it, even craning your neck to some horrible position and using a torch !!!

In the end I managed to get my M12 tap to grip and screw in, but I then had know way of pulling it out. After allot of messing about the bush broke up and I was able to get the remains out.

The new bush went in without too much bother, which was nice under the circumstances.

However, the starter motor still makes a nasty noise and is dead lazy

So - off to price a replacement, and my van is "on the cusp" of when they changed, ( 85 - 86 ) Plus the engine is not the original one and the box is the desirable but early "DK" model, so god knows which starter motor will be the correct one !!

Post by **HarryMann** » 22 Jan 2007, 10:33

Ask GSF to get both in and take your old one along

its exchange anyway.

Ok, I meant 'beg', not ask...

Post by **Mocki** » 22 Jan 2007, 10:49

i wasnt aware there was a difference in starters, my gearbox is a late one, but i fitted a starter from an early to it???????????????

timing too far advanced makes the starter appear lazy btw

Post by **ghost123uk** » 22 Jan 2007, 11:52

As far as I can tell, by looking on GSF and JK etc, there are 3 types for manual gearbox vans.

Air-cooled = pinion is close to the starter body
Early WBX = pinion spaced 1" aprox away from the body and the main cable stud is short
Later WBX = pinion spaced 1" aprox away from the body and the main cable stud is much longer ( because the alternator wire has a plastic collar on it ).

I reckon the later one will fit most manual WBX's but don't quote me !!

Post by **ghost123uk** » 22 Jan 2007, 11:54

Mocki wrote: timing too far advanced makes the starter appear lazy btw

Good point to bear in mind ( though of course mine is making grinding / whirring noises as well

)

Post by **The Reverend Pimp Daddy** » 22 Jan 2007, 16:42

ghost123uk wrote:
Mocki wrote: timing too far advanced makes the starter appear lazy btw

Good point to bear in mind ( though of course mine is making grinding / whirring noises as well )

You sure it's not your teeth grinding in anticipation

Excuse the pun

Hope you get it sorted soon m8......Mine is stood outside waiting for some spare cash so I can get both heat exchangers..the exhaust pipes are knackered....loud is an understatement

Post by **excalibur** » 22 Jan 2007, 19:56

Have you actualy stripped the starter down?

The most common problem with motors is worn brushes. If they are more than 3/4 worn the motor will be lazy. I put a set in mine when it started playing up....cost less than £4.00, I can never understand folks who just replace a motor without finding out what is wrong with it.

Post by **ghost123uk** » 23 Jan 2007, 09:28

excalibur wrote:Have you actualy stripped the starter down?

Well normally I am all for repairing rather than replacing, but in this case I wonder where one would get the parts from, bushes, brushes etc.

Euro Car Parts Chester branch have a genuine Bosch one in stock for £59 exchange, this seems reasonable and will quickly get me fixed, so I will go down that route this time.

===========
@ The Reverend Pimp Daddy
Hi Geoff - hope your well, not half looking forward to the spring and getting to some shows etc. Where do you prefer to get exhaust bits from pricewise ?

Post by **ghost123uk** » 23 Jan 2007, 17:29

The new starter motor worked a treat

It spins as fast, and sounds as good as a BMW now, so much quieter

Post by **The Reverend Pimp Daddy** » 23 Jan 2007, 17:48

Glad you got sorted John............Are you going to Dubfreeze ???