Over fuelling on starting

[wizwilson]

Hi, been doing some work on the van over weekend ( wiring to oil switches ) went to start it and it appearied to over fuel and die, check the plugs and they were wet so cleaned and replaced, same thing happened, the only way to get it to run was disconnect the fuel pump, it would the fire and run for few seconds, but every time the fuel pump connected it just seems to flood the engine ?

its never given me any issues like this before, so must be something i have touched or disconnected during the wiring work.

Van is 1989 2.1 injected DJ engine

Help

thanks Graham

[wizwilson]

So nobody else suffered from this issue ??

from the searching i have done it appears the blue temp sender controls the cold fueling on start up so my start with that, has anybody got a detailed description of how the injection system works on these ???

Help again

[kevtherev]

You've posted this in general chat fella.
Post technical questions in the relevant forum, this question shoulda gone in mechanical.
I guess the mods will move it and you'll get some answers.

Only women and whingers post here

[wizwilson]

Thanks for that info, been member for a while, but this is first time i have posted, for specific technical ...... Oops

[AdrianC]

from the searching i have done it appears the blue temp sender controls the cold fueling on start up so my start with that

Yep, that's the most likely. The injection "knows" when it needs the "choke out" - more fuel, more revs - by asking the coolant temp sensor (TempII). It's down on the side of the 'stat housing, next to another temp sender - which is for the temp gauge on the dash. So... just because that's working OK, doesn't mean the injection's sender is. You could remove it, and check the resistance at a range of temperatures. Or, given the price, you could just get a new one from the usual reputable source.

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php/ ... -blue.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get a new seal and clip, too.
https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php/ ... -ring.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php/ ... -clip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you've given it a coolant change recentlyish, then it's not hard to change these without losing too much coolant. If you haven't, this is a good opportunity...

has anybody got a detailed description of how the injection system works on these ???

There's a whole stack of good stuff out there, but much of it's US-focussed. The problem with that is that the US had cats much, much earlier than we did. They used Digijet (same as DJ) on 1.9s, and Digifant (different to DJ) on 2.1s - so, if you find US stuff, remember to read the 1.9 stuff, not the 2.1. Ignore anything about lambdas/oxygen sensors and cats. But the rest is good.

[wizwilson]

Hey thanks for the reply, surprised nobody else has suffered with this, as if the sensor becomes disconnected the amount of fuel delivered is huge, and the engine will not start, seems to flood almost instantly !

[wizwilson]

Ok update on the over fueling issue, have checked all earths in engine bay, renewed all eyelets with solider type and cleaned surfaces, what happens now is most peculiar can disconnect brown earth wire from pump and start the engine and it runs ????

quite a lot of black smoke, so disconnected the Blue temp sensor and it runs a little better not as good as it used to, but this may improve with new sensor, but whats got me baffled is it runs and if i reconnect brown wire to pump it cuts out ???

any ideas

have ordered a Bentley manual as this seems to be the only source of decent info on systems .

[AdrianC]

have ordered a Bentley manual as this seems to be the only source of decent info on systems .

<cough>downloadablePDF</cough>

How long does it run with the pump disconnected? I'm wondering if your fuel pressure valve has failed, and you've got too much pressure in the rail. The injectors "know" how much to inject because of an assumption of the fuel pressure - the ECU tells them how long to open for. If the pressure's too high, too much fuel will be injected.

[wizwilson]

cheers for the info, have found some of it when searching the other day, but all info is good info

yes thought it could be excessive pressure, but as i said its been as good as gold for the last year, anyways will do some checking this weekend to try and find the issue.

as for running with the brown wire disconnected, it starts and runs continuously which is the odd thing.

[wizwilson]

Again thanks for the info, but most of it is for Digijet system, mine is an 1989 2.1 so thought it was Digifant, i know the Idle stabilization is different how much more is different ??

[AdrianC]

Again thanks for the info, but most of it is for Digijet system, mine is an 1989 2.1 so thought it was Digifant, i know the Idle stabilization is different how much more is different ??

What engine code is your 2.1, and where did it start life? You said at the start it was a DJ? You sure about that?

Remember, Bentley is a US publication, so is completely unaware of the existence of the rest of the world...

Most European 2.1s are DJ - no cat, Digijet.
Some European 2.1s are SR or SS - cat, Digifant.
All North American 2.1s are MV - cat, Digifant.

When you're looking at US stuff, you want to look at injection stuff related to 1.9 - over there, the 1.9s had Digijet, but with cat. Over here, the 1.9s had carbs.

[wizwilson]

Yes its a European DJ engine, and as far as i can check it is standard setup.

[AdrianC]

Yes its a European DJ engine, and as far as i can check it is standard setup.

Digijet, then.

[mark]

I would clean all the electrical connections. once you know that you have shinny connections then start looking for faults, remaking the earths isn't enough. I did mine twice. it only takes an hour or two and the investment in a can of contact cleaner. give the amf a right good clean pop the top off carefully and clean the wiper track with contact cleaner be careful it is watch like and wont like any rough groping. don't adjust anything just a clean and super glue the top back on. the digijet pdf is good thing and has a good fault finding section .................after you've cleaned it

mark

[wizwilson]

ok update on running issue, can disconnect both wires from fuel pump, there is no fuel going back on the return pipe T junction, the Temp 2 resistance is ok, the Air flow sensor total resistance ok, Throttle switches resistance ok both Idle and full throttle, Idle stabilization valve working, have removed Ignition idle stabilizer as was faulty last year running ok since, checked injectors one side ok to ECU 11 , 12 , 23 , 24 which i think is the earth side. its the way the other side is wired, it changed a few times during the build years, but looks to be on this model to go to the fuel pump relay 87 which also feeds fuel pump and Idle valve.

My thinking is, and its going to sound daft but the injectors are open for a very long period and the fuel is being sucked through on induction stroke ????

anybody ever had such an issue