TDi Conversion - Details of ECU (And now Engine/box) stuff?

[davegsm82]

I'm going to change the 1.6 JX in my 88 Devon for a 1.9 Passat engine with flipped box.

Obviously you need an ECU with the more modern engine and in the 2000 onwards cars such as my MK4 golf I know that the immobiliser is in the clocks.

So the question is, when you do the upgrade, do you simply strip out all of the unnecessary wiring and perform an Immo-off mod in the ECU firmware? or is there simply an input to the ECU which disables starting? Is there even an immobiliser on the 96-99 cars?

Your advice is appreciated!

Dave.

[lloydy]

if you get a car with immob in clocks you can change it for the earlier stand alone version. if you don't want a immob, then get it deleted off the ecu.

[davegsm82]

Thanks Lloydy, I did a little more reading last night and figured that was the case, I would like an immobiliser but can work something out myself initially until I can set up an original or make my own RFID one (I'm an electronics engineer).

I'm going to guess that not a lot of people will want to give up information about TDi installs simply because it's not in the interest of the kit manufacturers to do so, which is fine and I don't blame anyone for that, everyone needs to make their daily bread

I just wish it was easier to find some of the initial information such as pinouts for ECU's as used in the Passat, I'm comfortable stripping out the loom and even doing an IMMO-off (whether that be K-line or manually removing chips and reprogramming).

A list of parts required to go from complete 1.6JX to 1.9 ETDI and flipped box from a passat would be the thing of dreams but I guess I'm going to just have to wing-it

Dave.

[busbuddy]

a list of parts, well that's all down to personal choice

you could buy all the parts from uk conversion people or HA in Germany

you could bodge it with crap welded mounts and boost pipes held together by gaffa tape

and there is a whole world of choice in between those 2

wiring diagrams are all over the net with pin outs for all sorts of tdi's

so you need to ask yourself, how deep are your pockets, can you weld, do you want the engine to just run or do you want it to work right, do you want to spend the next 3 years sorting through all the bits that were a 'make do' option on install, etc

there are so many variations on engine mounts, potentiometers, turbos, gear linkages, etc that the same 'to do' list wont suit everyone and of course there are the 'that will do' brigade who scotchlock everything that wont hold together with gaffa

if you search on forums, uk, german and usa for someone who has used your exact engine to get an idea of what has worked and then decide if you like how they did it and can you do it as good or better

[davegsm82]

Cheers Busbuddy.

I'm a middle of the road kind of guy, scotchlocks are the devils work. I wouldn't use them if you paid me to.

I have been known to temporarily 'bodge' things but only if I know it will last until I can formulate a more permanent solution.

I can weld, I have a MIG, although I've not done it in a long time. I built a trailer to pull behind my motorbike a couple of years ago, that hasn't disintegrated yet so I must have done a semi-reasonable job on it.

I've done engine swaps before, I own a hoist and all the necessary tools to do the job.

Currently I have about a grand to play with, perhaps a little more, depends how much crap I can shift on ebay. There's a Passat near me for £350 which will give everything I need except the adapted mounts. I've reserached the immobiliser stuff a bit more, I'm fairly confident that's not an issue any more. If the difference between just running, and running right is largely the difference between lashing in an extra 10 cables for brake, clutch and potentiometer, then I will have it running right.

I want to use the full compliment from the donor vehicle, that is; Engine, Box, ECU (+immobiliser if separate), Turbo, intercooler, MAF etc etc. I don't want to have to 'put up' with poor performance because I've used the JX turbo and no intercooler for example.

My van is solid at the minute (apart from the rusty roof) and I can put up with the JX for now, but I can't live with it forever, it's thirsty and revvy. I love the VE engine, that's what is in my golf and it has just ticked over to 288k this month.

Cheers, Dave.

[davegsm82]

Have located an AFN (transverse) in a local scrap yard, same yard has an A4 which will yield the correct box.

The AFN is in a Sharan, I think it's complete so should give all the necessary bits for the conversion.

I believe though that I will have to use the Turbo from the A4, is this correct? since apparently the sharan one will foul the original JX engine mount?

So, that would be an AFN (originally 110HP) with a Turbo from an AHU (90HP) and a DHL Box. All the electrics would come from the AFN.

Can anyone think of any major issues I may hit with this setup?

Dave.

[lloydy]

If your using the A4 gearbox, you'll be putting the engine in upright? If so, how will you even be using the jx mounts to worry about fouling them? Surely you will be using custom mounts?

[donciuz]

AFN has a vnt turbo operated by vacuum and AHU/1Z has a wastegate turbo operated by pressure so these two are not interchangeable to my knowledge. If you use turbodiesel JX exhaust manifold and adaptor you can leave the AFN turbo.

[davegsm82]

Hi there, sorry no I should probably have clarified myself a little better.

I'll be taking the entire engine, looms and ECU etc from the Shran and mating it with the turbo and box from the A4. The engine will be angled backwards using one of Tim Shettle's adapter plates. (50 degrees with the flipped audi box).

Aparently the in-line AFN engines have the mounting points to bolt on the original JX left hand engine mount, however i'm concerned that the transverse AFN might not have the mounting holes.

The right hand side one has to be fabricated or bought from Tim.

The reason for using the AHU turbo is that it sits higher up in the engine bay similar to the JX turbo meaning that the return oil feed isn't a problem. However if as you say I can just use the JX manifold and bolt on the AFN turbo then I'll just do that I thought the enxhaust and manifold would be one complete piece just like on my ASV Golf MK4.

Cheers, Dave.

[lloydy]

longitudinal engine = LH mount same as jx. RH mount different

transverse engine = LH mount same as jx. RH mount same as jx

VNT15 turbo (AFN) will not bolt to jx manifold. (stud pattern different for turbo)
VNT15 turbo is not integrated to manifold
AFN manifold (or any tdi manifold) puts the turbo right where the jx engine mount is.
So, you either need to use the jx manifold and vnt15 turbo with one of Tims turbo adapters. Or use the TDI manifold and turbo as use a custom mount (i did this)

So, a longitudinal engine using a tdi manifold will need a custom mount on both sides

a transverse engine will be able to use the jx mount on the right but a custom mount on the left unless you use one of Tims adapters, then you can use the jx mount.

You can't use a AHU turbo with a AFN ECU. A AHU turbo does not sit higher than a AFN turbo

Hope that helps a bit?

[davegsm82]

Hi Lloydy,
Thanks a lot, that helps massively apart from being confused still about the transverse and longitudinal (inline) engine mounts.

You've said;

longitudinal engine = LH mount same as jx. RH mount different

transverse engine = LH mount same as jx. RH mount same as jx

Are you sure that's the right way round? The A4 I have my eye on has an inline engine and obviously the mounts are left and right hand sides of the motor (as viewed from the front or back of the vehicle), the same as the JX. So am I wrong in thinking I can bolt up my original JX mounts on both sides of an inline AFN/AHU?

If there's no real reason not to, then I'd probably end up using the JX manifold and the VNT turbo (+adapters) from whichever car donates its engine.

Would you recommend using the Transverse AFN from the Sharan or the complete inline AHU setup from the A4? I need to let the yard know tomorrow if I want either as they will be removing the mechanical items and I will be doing the 'careful' stuff. I would rather keep as much of the original setup as possible.

I could/most likely will get the engine mounts from the A4 if I get that engine, I guess it could be easy to modify them to fit the T25 engine cradle.

Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

Dave.

[lloydy]

The sharan engine will give you the least amount of grief. Both jx mounts will bolt onto the block. The A4 block, only the turbo side will bolt on. (LH side)
I have a inline engine in mine, it's more work by far. You will also notice the alternator on the inline engine sits a lot higher and will stick up through your engine lid. I would just get everything off the sharan, it's the donor of choice for most.

[davegsm82]

The sharan engine will give you the least amount of grief. Both jx mounts will bolt onto the block....

That's what I wanted to hear

I will have to check that the Sharan is complete, I beleive it is. At the very least I need to ensure the key is there for the Immo, If I could get it started or at least turning over that would be even better.

How come the Sharan has the appropriate mounting points? I thought all normally transverse engines wouldn't have the holes drilled and tapped, unless the sharan actually uses that mount?(!)

Cheers, Dave.

[lloydy]

I just think at some stage you've got some info back to front, it's the transverse engines that have the same block mounts as the jx.

[davegsm82]

Hmm, perhaps I have, I don't get it though.

My T25 has an Inline Engine, yes? i.e. the crank rotates at a 90-degree angle to the wheels.
My MK4 golf has a transverse engine, correct? i.e. the crank rotates in the same plane as the wheels.

In which case, the Sharan has the same style of transverse engine arrangement as my Golf, so how (actually, why is a more appropriate question) would the Sharan have mounts similar to the JX when I presume that the engine is mounted the same as the golf? (i.e. 1 mount at the timing belt and 1 mount above the gearbox).

Can't see from the link below but it shows the TDi engine in the type of sharan I'm looking at (in case there are different types).

http://www.carbasics.co.uk/blog/vw-shar ... e-bay-tdi/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers for humouring me, either I've missed something fundamental or VW in their wisdom have somehow mounted the TDi differently to how I'm expecting.

Thanks, Dave.