WBX Cylinder head studs - just wondering...

Post by **veedweeb** » 01 Dec 2006, 19:49

I did look on the Wiki thing, but I couldn't see anything.

As I understand it, the weak point with WBX engines is the head studs corroding and snapping when the wrong antifreeze is used, or it's not changed frequently enough.

I'm just wondering if it's worth dropping the engine and replacing the bolts as a precautionary measure?

Whenever I buy a car with a timing belt, I always change the belt just in case.

Is changing the head bolts a realistic idea, or is it a massive job?

Post by **kevtherev** » 01 Dec 2006, 20:10

Interesting point and quite valid. but...what if they've been changed or there's not a bit of rust...it's the old story for me.... if it ain't broke..don't fix it

you could be that way with other things too, drive shafts...heater motor.
mines done 140,000 miles and the studs...well who knows

Post by **veedweeb** » 01 Dec 2006, 20:18

kevtherev wrote:
you could be that way with other things too, drive shafts...heater motor.
mines done 140,000 miles and the studs...well who knows

Fair point, but if a stud breaks, it's a very expensive repair. If a drive shaft or heater motor or whatever breaks, then the consequences are much less disastrous.

I think I'd rather make sure it never broke, rather than waiting and fixing it when it does.

Post by **R0B** » 01 Dec 2006, 22:37

what if you break any doing this change you mention.....

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 02 Dec 2006, 00:25

DONT HAVE A COW
can of worms

Post by **kevtherev** » 02 Dec 2006, 00:43

veedweeb wrote: If a drive shaft or heater motor or whatever breaks, then the consequences are much less disastrous.

you obviously have never had to get at a heater motor then....a stud is a trifle compared to this!!

one other thing.... should you attempt to remove the head when everything is ok then if the nut has welded itself to the stud you have created a problem coz that nut will snap the stud for sure.

good luck with the preventitive maintainance

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 02 Dec 2006, 10:02

part of the solution... tungsten exhaust manifold bolts. I'll let you know how it goes when I come to remove exhaust! cost about £30 odd quid for all 8.

Post by **"WEAZLECHIN"** » 02 Dec 2006, 22:46

confused? the studs maybe ok now but your not sure if they are corroded, so replace them anyway. why not wait till the head gasket or something else goes, then when you undo the head bolts and they break ?they are corroded and need replacing.
but if you really feel the need to do it. replace them now "just in case", and change the windscreen cos you dont know when someone may break it !!! and what about the exhaust, it will be blowing in two years time. change it now. "just in case"..

Post by **veedweeb** » 03 Dec 2006, 09:03

Wow!

I can't help detecting a little hostility towards this idea...

My background is in property maintenance - I'm a surveyor. Preventative maintenance is a big part of what I do for work. It's the old "A stitch in time..." thing.

Preventative Maintenance also includes servicing too. You don't change the engine oil when it reaches the end of its life, you change it at regular intervals regardless of its condition. It's the same principle.

But thanks for everyone's responses anyway.

Post by **"WEAZLECHIN"** » 03 Dec 2006, 09:33

yes but that is "servicing" head bolt replacement isnt. i bought a brand new range rover two weeks ago, shall i change engine now to avoid doing it in 15 years time, i may aswell have it resprayed as it may get a scratch or two later! then theres the pre-emptive tyre wear, i better just change em now eh.

Post by **veedweeb** » 03 Dec 2006, 09:39

But servicing is the same thing. Do you wait for your air filter to become completely clogged before you change it? Do you wait for your tyres to become completely bald? What about the timing belt in your OHC engine?

If something has a life of 50,000 miles, and when it fails it'll cost £500 to replace. Replacing it at 45,000, before it fails will only cost £100. Doesn't it make sense to replace it early? Sure, it might last for 60, 70 or even 80,000 miles, but you're living on borrowed time then.

Post by **kevtherev** » 03 Dec 2006, 14:32

veedweeb wrote:But servicing is the same thing.

No it isn't... you do not service an item which does not figure in the service schedule...you may replace it though at your own discretion. If you feel strongly enough about replacing parts that you consider a liability..but then why stop at the studs?, consider the oil pump..or the water pump the list is endless ....

the answer of course is to buy a £1200 engine from VW then your preventitive maintainence will be justified

can I suggest if you are so concerned about P.M. why did you buy a 20 year old van.

veedweeb wrote:If something has a life of 50,000 miles, and when it fails it'll cost £500 to replace. Replacing it at 45,000, before it fails will only cost £100. Doesn't it make sense to replace it early? Sure, it might last for 60, 70 or even 80,000 miles, but you're living on borrowed time then.

I'd like to know the life span of the studs myself then PM's would be a realistic!

Post by **toomanytoys** » 03 Dec 2006, 15:08

Mmmm
Changing the head studs as PA isnt as good an idea as you first think..
as said, you can open a can of worms as if a stud does break when removing then you are into another set of issues.. even if all goes well and you can replace, then while you are there shouldnt you replace the piston rings at least? but you still have a 80/100/150k bottom end etc... the effort to change the studs for a PM really is too much.. it would be much better to buy an exchange VW engine (yes they are still available..) for about 1200 quid.. then you have an "all new" engine.. (the best idea if you are keeping it for a few years)
Other wise its better to leave well alone until it starts showing signs of leakage/other wear issues...

Post by **veedweeb** » 03 Dec 2006, 15:21

The idea behind this thread was to find out if it was feasible/worthwhile/whatever to replace a well known weak link in the engine, before it failed completely. I'm reasonably competent at spanner twirling - I'm part way through building a sandrail, for example.

It just struck me that it's well known that the studs are likely to fail at some point... no-one knows when. I don't know for certain what condition they are in now, nor do I know how well the engine has been maintained by previous owners, so it makes sense to me to bring them up to a known standard, rather than just hoping they'll be OK.

And frankly, T3teedubya's and toomanytoys's posts are about the only ones here that have been helpful.

And kevtherev: I bought a 16 year old van because I like it. Can't think of a better reason than that, can you?

And it looks like it's not going to be worth changing them either - I get the impression that they are likely to snap whilst being removed. Looks like I'll just have to drive round with my fingers crossed! Good job it's automatic!!