engine broke whilst in for respray

[dubwright]

Hi there, need some advice here!

I put my T25 in for a full re-spray etc in November last year, it took forever, various reasons, some valid. Finally after 10 months we were about to get her back. Then a call from the garage, they couldn't get her going. she was running fine when she went in, just back from a couple of hundred mile trip.
ended up being given the garage guys own engine, (my old engine had just had a whole new exhaust fitted) went away on a short run and the exhaust blew.

Now I am back I have to go settle the remainder of the bill. I already gave well over 3K in cash. (for respray)
Its a bit of a grey area, where do I stand with paying for the engine? If my old engine was fine but now is loathe to start and when it does its blowing black smoke and misfiring. is it the garages responsibility to keep it running whilst in the garage, ie firing the engine up now and again.

Should I pay something, all or anything?

Anyone any ideas? cheers!! deb

[nicktennear]

How much do they want you to pay and what for? Personally I'd want my original engine back if I knew it was fine before it went in.

[Theclash]

You shouldn't of swapped engines in the first place maybe he's had you over ( yours was a better engine) old fuel, damp electrics or anything as minor with it being stood could of prevented it from running not having a go at you here but where's your common sense ..........sorry if it sounds a bit harsh

[AdrianC]

Apart from anything else, I fail to see why an "engine swap" wouldn't have included your new exhaust staying on your van.

[dubwright]

Sorry I didn't make myself clear! My original engine had a new exhaust, was running fine when it went in for respray. A couple of days before I was due to get the van back, they couldnt get the engine to start, they tried everything so as a last resort, swapped engines, I wasn't told until I went to collect my van about the swap, I was due off in it so said I would sort it out when I got back.
Whilst we were away, the exhaust started blowing (he swapped over his engine and his exhaust)

Now I have to go back and sort the bill and don't really know what I should pay for, it seems a grey area.
Just need a bit of advice, who is responsible for my original engine not working now when it was fine when it went in?

It sat there for 10 months.It wouldn't start, they tried new fuel etc when it finally started it was blowing black smoke, he thinks a piston ring may be gone...
sorry, hope that makes more sense! deb
ps I don't know how much I am paying, I am going to see them soon, just wanted some advice before I went!!

[Theclash]

Hi deb, I would say it's your responsibility for the engine not running as it's your van and they were only employed by you to respray it. If they swapped the engine as a tempory measure to get you up and running with your consent
Then I would ask them to swap engines back pay them for there time and get it trailered to a local mechanic who knows these vans ....if they swapped it without your consent then I would still be asking them to swap the engines back and paying them just for the respray

[dubwright]

Thanks the Clash!
They did the engine swap (without my knowledge) as I have been trying to get my van back all summer and I gave them an ultimatum, and I think they were freaked that it was taking so long.
I don't feel that they made my van a priority, and am a bit annoyed at how long they had the van, I feel they should have started her up whilst they had her, they have a vw camper mechanic so I trust them with the engine.

[Theclash]

Deb if you are happy enough with the engine you have in your van now try and get them to at least swap over the old exhaust for your new one on your original engine cause these cost a pretty penny, if they refuse knock the cost of the exhaust + labour of the final bill
Good luck and hope everything stays amicable

[dbz864]

emm, sounds very dodgy to me. Ive said it before paint people are a breed on there own, they would sell there family if someone would buy them. I cant believe what they have done to be honest. THO we are only hearing one side of the story.

[CovKid]

I strongly suggest that before you potentially make matters worse (and bear in mind payment could be seen as acceptance) that you go see Citizens Advice pronto. Understand your rights and their responsibilites as traders before you do anything that could leave you out of pocket.

[AdrianC]

A couple of days before I was due to get the van back, they couldnt get the engine to start, they tried everything so as a last resort, swapped engines

<boggle> Probably best they stick to bodywork.

[dubwright]

Thanks everyone for your replies...
It is a bit of a mess, I wasn't sure of their responsibilities to the van whilst they had it, as it had been so long.
I would never have left it sitting so long without a run if it had been at home. Do engines just go like that if sitting?

Will see if I can get to citizens advice...
Thing is, the guy seems pretty reasonable, but I know he wants me to pay for the engine. I have not got a clue where I stand on this. Really appreciate the input guys!! deb

[Ian and Lins]

It sounds like they don't know much about engines. Black smoke-rich mixture so does not indicate broken piston ring as that would be oil burning and crankcase pressuring.

[CovKid]

Just don't delay on Citizens Advice. Its free and you may be surprised at the rights you have. Yes he might be reasonable but you should at least be fully aware of your rights. Theres also: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but in your position I'd talk to an adviser face to face. They are highly trained.

Thinking outside the box, if your engine has deteriorated through it being so long there, that is hardly your fault given the time it took to do the job. Like most things in consumer law, everything is based on what is 'reasonable' and a long wait like that does not sound reasonable. His attempts to remedy the situation may have no legal standing at all.

[T25Convert]

Right couple of things to add here:

1) Doesn't sound like you ever saw your engine not starting / running with blue smoke so you have his word that it was not right, but he has made this judgement for you. He then swapped his (possibly) knackered old engine with a broken exhaust on with your engine which (may be) fine. Seems he may win here, whilst portraying himself as a nice bloke who'd swop his own engine to get you moving!

2) I'd ask for the old engine to be put back in, along with anything else he swapped for you (hmm, your nice alloys were not working right, I swapped them for these nasty old steelies). If it worked fine before, then assuming he hasn't actually broken anything it should work fine again now!!

It is possible a piston ring may have broken (it can seize if left sitting and snap when you start up) but if it were just a bit crappy at first start up then I'd have put that down to it getting rid of 10 months of accumulated crud. Before I rebuilt my engine it used to smoke a fair bit on start up after sitting fro a week, let alone months. Would sound like a bag of spanners on startup as well due to drained down tappets.

As to how to proceed, depends if you want his old engine or your supposed non-runner. If you want your engine back pay him nothing for the swap - he did that off his own back with no authorisation. If you want to keep the engine as its better than yours, you need to work out what its worth - I'd suggest unless it comes with proper warranty and recent rebuilt its worth about £400 (see ebay for current values of 2nd hand long blocks).

If it were me I'd get my engine back in and if it needed work I'd get the work done by someone who knew what they were doing (or do it myself!) - At least then you'll have an engine with known history rather than the potentially knackered old engine he gave you...

Good luck!

Alex