facet fuel pump

[dave lfc]

just read an interesting thread on the facet fuel pump to solve intermittent fuel problems.there are a couple i have seen,a plastic one and a metal one.which is best and when fitting do you fit it to where the old fuel filter was or just above on the side out of the way?also where is best to run the live wire from the pump?what do you do with the old fuel pump do you blank it off somehow?also is 3 metres of 5.5mm fuel hose enough,any tips would be great,cheers dave

[CovKid]

That would be me probably.

You want a low pressure one like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Facet-12v-8mm ... 461ddec6f6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fit as you suggested and you can leave old pump 'as is' - just remove its pushrod and run fuel from new pump direct to carb. Live from blue wire connector at alternator.

No need for a relay - not at less than two amps but must be fused. Bear in mind facet inlet/outlet is 8mm. That didn't present too much of a prob for me although I gather you can get 6mm inlet/outlets versions to replace the 8mm ones. I just upgraded everything to 8mm.

[dave lfc]

what size fuse should i fit,thanks for that covkid,cheers dave

[CovKid]

8 amp should be enough. These pumps are self-regulating, Its a good upgrade - unless your existing pump is up to scratch in which case leave things as they are. If you do fit one make sure everything is clamped up properly as it moves fuel much faster and under slight pressure. The chassis rail has quite a few holes where you can put a bolt through to secure pump. You only really need one bolt if its tightened up and placed just right and there are bigger holes through which you can get a small spanner for the nut. Ideally site it above one of those large holes. Mine is at least a foot from the tank and works fine. Alternatively you could make up a bracket with suitable hole spacing. Bigherb did it that way.

You always know your pump is working as you can hear it chunter when first starting the engine. Once line is fully primed it goes quiet.

Heres one in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXrJc7refrU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CovKid]

Update and a few thoughts really.

I've had a few days starting up and driving around with the electric fuel pump and it has transformed running almost beyond recognition. I suspected the stock pump wasn't running as well as it might and the repeated issue with fuel line going dry if the van was stood for a few days was becoming embarrasing. Clearly the pump hadn't been able to keep up under all conditions and although it seemed to run reasonably ok if the line was primed (even on a motorway), I had loss of power sometimes if I booted it and occasional spluttering.

Now I can just put my foot down and go, with carb getting what it actually needs. Quite a pleasure to drive once more.

Obviously a misfire is a misfire and even an electric pump won't cure that, but poor fuel delivery to carb can create performance issues outside of that. The fact is, its not easy to determine whether a mechanical pump is really working as it should, just by seeing if fuel comes out the other end. This can change during running - mine certainly did. It was basically a weak pump.

At one time, before VW switched to mexican-style sealed fuel pumps, you could buy new diaphrams for them, with the top held on by a few screws. It was quite satisfying to do. That all vanished by the 1980s so you just had to swap out entire pump after that. There was, if I remember rightly, a way of calculating pump effeciency by how much fuel it delivered within a prescribed time but I doubt anyone does that now. You just hope pump works and pushrod hasn't worn away.

The plus side of mechanical pumps is that they generally give many years service and as long as engine is moving, so is the pump. The downside is that performance declines over time and sometimes you can be chasing your own tail trying to pinpoint a fuel problem.

The plus side of electric ones, apart from the fact they fill the line much faster, is that they are either working or they are not (easy to tell both by ear and visually via the filter) and they are easy and cheap to replace.

I can't help feeling I've left something behind by making this change. I've worked on Volkswagens for so many years I have an affection for that little pump. It had barely changed since the 1950s, through the Aircooled and into the watercooled models. It did a grand job and part of that self-contained and simple approach that early volkswagens had.

For that reason I'm going to remove the pushrod, leave it where it is and give it a quiet easy life and seal up the inlet/outlet pipes. Call it a tribute blanking plate. God rest its soul, its worked damned hard, Who am I to cast it out.

[JesusJason]

Have I been an a***? I've bought a Facet Electric Fuel Pump Kit 7 To 10 Psi, is this too much for an Aircooled 2.0 T25, should I risk fitting it?

[CovKid]

Too high - You'd need a regulator to reduce it. Risk it? I wouldn't. It could leak and you could kill the float needle valve. Its the low pressure one you want - needs to be in 3 to 7 PSI range to match stock setup.

Follow this thread instead: https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=134869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JesusJason]

Thanks buddy, I've just ordered two (1 to carry as a spare) from the eBay link you posted earlier

[Zipper]

I've just received the webber quiet electric pump for a 1.9dg just deciding if its better to wire from alternator or the coil?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1410980480.649069.jpg

[CovKid]

Should be fine although personally I'd stick with the cheap and easily replaceable plastic filters that have always been used. No other reason than that - easy to change, cheap, and available everywhere. The one on the left looks good though - looks as though you can just wash that one out and refit.

Up to you on coil or alternator. I found alternator simpler. Check the amp draw on pump. If its above a couple of amps you'll need a relay.

[benlawlor85]

Hi CovKid,
Thanks for the info in this thread, I have finally given up on Mechnical pumps on my 2l CU after having a dodgy Omega one and my original one wont start the van if stood for awhile. It wont self prime. So i have a £15 ebay Facet pump to install. i was planning an elaborate wiring system with a relay etc but your advice to wire from the blue on the alternator will save me loads of time and effort. How is it best to 'tap' into the blue wire? (im at work at the moment so no infront of the van)
Thanks again
Ben

[CovKid]

My method is certainly the simplest and does work since the draw from a low pressure facet isn't much. Connection-wise anywhere you like although I simply split the terminal at the alternator and just ran another cable (which inludes an in-line fuse) underneath. You could pick it up at the dash end I suppose. Do make sure the ignition light is out before pulling off if you use this source though.

I do recommend some method of firing the pump on a push-to-make switch when engine isn't running as it can save a lot of work should you ever run out of fuel and need to get the fuel through quickly. I don't and would have to drop a cable from battery positive direct to positive on pump, so a switch would be useful to save the scrambling. My alternator is a tadge lazy, needing a rev to get the light to go out but I've become used to it. You may not have that prob at all.

With the mechanical pump, its ability is entirely dependent on engine speed (as you know) but the Facet couldn't care less. A couple of times after standing for a few days the pump has been noisy for the first 10 seconds but that just proves the line was dry. In the past, the mech pump would have struggled dealing with that and I'd have to resort to slopping petrol down the carb to get it to fire, and then the pump have enough speed to pull the fuel through. Not had those kind of problems since going electric. The self-priming ability is very reassuring. Rubber washers help minimise noise transmitted from pump to chassis as it can be loud underneath you.

I should point out (being a beetle man at heart) that I'm not a big fan of introducing relays which can create additional failure points except where the draw is high - ie headlights, fans etc. The simpler the setup, the less to go wrong in my view, as long as everything is fused . Facet draws about 2 amps max (only 24 watts in power). Others will feel differently but thats fine.

[benlawlor85]

Sounds ideal. and the override switch also a good idea, when this is activated the 'gen' light on the dash will go out too im guessing!?
If i dont end up in the pub this evening this will be tonights mission. I will update when i have it installed with maybe a pic or two.
Other thing i was considering was a fuel pump cut off switch as a security measure.... not sure i could be bothered tho!
or maybe i can use a three way switch -on with power from battery - off and -on power from alternator.

[CovKid]

Great idea. Most they'd get is a few yards if you can isolate the pump that way. Alternatively you may find a switch that at rest provides route via blue wire and in momentary position provides power from battery. I really like the isolator idea though....

Sounds ideal. and the override switch also a good idea, when this is activated the 'gen' light on the dash will go out too im guessing!?
If i dont end up in the pub this evening this will be tonights mission. I will update when i have it installed with maybe a pic or two.
Other thing i was considering was a fuel pump cut off switch as a security measure.... not sure i could be bothered tho!
or maybe i can use a three way switch -on with power from battery - off and -on power from alternator.

[benlawlor85]

Me again.
I installed the pump today, Wire from back of alternator along chassis rail up into battery compartment. no switch as of yet as i thought i had one but i dont.
My only issue is that the pump doesn't seem to pump much fuel. a slow dribble at best.
It constantly keeps clicking too. I presumed this would stop once carbs are full any ideas?
The pump is just a cheap £15 ebay 'facet style' pump.
Cheers
Ben