vw speedshop 2.1 fuel injection kit opinions

[covdubber]

vw speedshop 2.1 fuel injection kit opinions please, I've been fannying around with various new parts on my 2.1 injection, adjusted idle, throttle switch etc etc etc now its running worse than ever, cutting out, been super methodical, Christ it was easier doing weber IDFs on my air-cooled with a lumpy cam!

the old injection wiring seems brittle/past its best I've resoldered connectors back on & all sorts, checked resistances followed the Haynes & Bentley manual

compressions on the engine are 170 give or take a pound or two on each cylinder hot 150psi steady cold engine, idle oil pressure is good, checked on an electrical gauge & capillary gauge no water leaks, knocks/bangs smoke so I believe the engine itself is good!

I bloody hate old electrics

so my symtoms on my engine now are, it wont idle got or cold, cuts out on junctions, sometimes drops to 3 cylinders from 4 so something is breaking down somewhere

what are ya thoughts all don't worry the syncro wont beat me, beides I have a holiday booked for the 1st week of july so I gotta get it going anyone in the midlands able to help????

[ELVIS]

Not on 2.1 but got Paul to build me a set up for my splitty last year, 1600TP.

He uses DTA stuff which is a well known and respected product.

Very knowledgeable bloke, has a chassis dyno and rolling road in his back garden garage

Does all his mapping aswell.

If you were into Aircooled stuff back in the day, you will know Paul (Hamilton) provinence. Doesn't race as much now but has done low 12s in a bus in recent years and did 9s when he built and raced his own bug.(street legal )

Deffo recommend

[max and caddy]

Dizzy cap? Bad leads?

[covdubber]

nice one elvis, Christ on a bike! the jammy "bar-steward" with a rolling road in his garage to be fair I know a chap in oxford into classic minis (turbocharged) he has a rolling road in his garage, its a hobby for him though

I have had recommendations for DTA stuff for a previous project, obviously I'm not after out n out power, I want reliability, flat torque curve (seeing as its a syncro) & maybe better mpg if at all possible???

glad to hear you have experience 1st hand with dta dude

I've not been into vws long enough to know who paul is but from experience of drag racing my mini turbo a while back (10 years ago) times down to 15.23 1/4, I know that for a guy that can get any type of bus/van to do a 12 is a bloody knowledgeable fella for sure!!!

do you run injection on ya split elvis?

do ya'll think this setup would be a good option for my syncro, everthing else seems good on my syncro, no rust in the body, good multivan interior, general mechanics apart from one ball joint is all good engine is good apart from the old wiring etc etc its not a cheap option putting this kit on I know but I know I can fit it & get my bus running on new kit fairly fast & I wanna bloody use my syncro, & I'm getting pissed of chasing resistances & voltages getting "book" results & the damn thing still wont run right?

I'm prepared to give my syncro 2 good long days of trying to getting running right before I start making rash decisions & spending ££££ syncros seem to have a knack for that lol

unbiased opinions/advice is well appreciated!!!

[covdubber]

replaced everything with "book" recommended parts max n caddy, I mean everything, filters rotor arm, plugs the lot, I had similar issues years ago on a Nissan Sylvia (no cold start) but I found that issue to be a broken wire in the loom & was an easy fix

like I say in the above post I'm not giving up yet but I was meant to go to devon in the 1st week of july to visit a relative & wanted to take the syncro so I could camp but I don't trust the syncro to get there n back with the current setup & I'm not one for coming home on a tow truck, cant take that shame!

I am prepared to chase issue for a few more long days & check everything is set per the "book" oooohh I do get gripey when I cant my my vw run right, I get victor meldrew syndrome but swear more!!!!

[max and caddy]

Tappets? Injectors goosed?

[covdubber]

no'p I reset all the tappets, 20 odd years of wear I like to adjust them to the book, reset timing, injectors are 100% good, bloody baffling me I tell ya

only thing I have swapped out is the coil! but that aint temp sensitive in operating temp is it

it gives a big phat spark when I test it

[Simon Baxter]

Did you go through the list the other day on that other thread?
How have you set the basic setting on the tappets as Haynes setting of 2 turns is for new, empty buckets and if you set them like that it will jack them open and it'll run like a sack.
Set to 1.25 turns.

[Simon Baxter]

Oh, and it's not on LPG is it?
We see quite a few bent AFM vanes from when the LPG has a sneeze and blows the inlet side to bits.

[covdubber]

no set up as you mention si, no lpg on this one, never had it fitted either

working for 2 days in my day job, then I'm welding fabing a camper interior for my old mans transit, should have that done by sunday so hopefully between Thursday & sunday i'll get some time to pee around on my 2.1 again

I'm taking the Haynes & Bentley to work to flick through when I'm doing nowt to see if I've mis-read anything & be sure I'm on the right track
when I bought the thing it drove great! started fixing minor issues/simple stuff & changing old service items for new its started playing up

I wont be beaten by it though.....i'll do some vids of it running/cutting out Thursday!

[Simon Baxter]

Paste from the other thread.

Personally I wouldn't touch the mixture pot just yet.
Just start at the beginning, gap and clean or replace the plugs.
Check resistances of the HT leads.
Inspect cap and rotor.
Check/set ignition timing.
Check temp2 with ohmmeter.
Make sure the idle/full throttle switch is doing what it's meant to [continuity at idle and full throttle]
Check the throttle body for wear [highly likely]
Pull the injectors out and check the spray pattern [likely]
Check the vacuum hoses to the fuel pressure regulator are intact.
Check the vac advance and retard diaphragms are in good order [a leak here will upset the fuel pressure regulator and think it's at a higher throttle position that it's at so fuel pressure will increase and as it does so with the idle amount of air going in it will result in a richer mixture.]
Check the fuel pressure.
It is very very rare that you have to adjust the mixture pot, it's usually something else that's failed.

That lot is going to take 30 mins or so, you'll need a multimeter [which any T3 owner should have really] a timing light and a cheap £5 gauge off e-bay for the fuel pressure.

Timing on a DJ is 10° BTDC if you run it on super, back it off a bit for unleaded, the book says 5 but we tend to go to about 7 or so.
Fuel pressure is 2 bar with vacuum, 2.5 bar without and is checked by removing the small blanking plug on the T-piece by the dizzy.

[covdubber]

right simon big thanks, what thread is that from?????? had a piece of pi$$ shift at work lots of time spare so I sat reading the Haynes manual what a sad "bar-steward" , tomorrow hopefully will be an easier shift if again if I play my cards right so i'll read the Bentley tomorrow

my syncro has a lambda sensor so that makes it a digifant doesn't it????? no vacuum on the dizzy either, I don't know what engine code that would make my motor

my engine will not run/idle if you disconnect the idle stabiliser or lambda? if you disconnect the temp 2 sensor it will not start either??? but it will run if disconnected with the engine running, just wont restart

like ya say before I go spending bucks!!! I'm going to go back to the basics & be super anal about it, the ALDI digital micrometer is coming out even

& try everything to get it running nice, I may get a full 12 hour day Thursday on it fingers crossed i'll get it going right!!! I may jinx myself but i'll do vids of how its running now & hopefully with a 100% improvement

[covdubber]

right lads had a fiddle on the van today, what a nightmare, the idle screw was seized solid in the throttle body!

timing is all to "cock", was going to redo the timing & dropped my flippin timing gun & broke it - you can imagine the curse words.....
just to confirm the timing for a 2.1 with lambda is 5 degrees before tdc +-1 is that right???????

idle rpms are fluctuating from 800 to 1200 why would they fluctuate?

engine temp is spot on in the middle of the gauge!

now I bought a new timing gun reset the timing dizzy to 5degrees btdc & the engine rpms increased so I dropped the idle a little after a nightmare of a job un-seizing the screw, the flat blade section is pretty mauled now but the idle screw works! so I set the idle by ear! to what I think is around 900-1000rpms which I know is a little high but I plan to fiddle

after these adjustments it seems to have loverly crisp throttle response now the problem I have

now I did all the above adjustments with the engine at running temp!

now the main issue is once the engine is left running at operating temp for a while it then starts to run lumpy the idle rpms start to drop then it dies, its then struggles to restart straight away - if I leave it 5 mins it wil then start on the button & run super smooth again I have some pics & a vid or two hang on whilst if upload them.....

my new temp 2 sensor is a blue one is that correct???? screw in syncro type not the pushfit hair clip type

[covdubber]

when its been running at operating temp for 5-8 mins roughly, you can see/hear its running rough as "pooh"! then just dies
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whats this meant to be connected to white with a green tracer

found it tucked behind the ign coil

this was just an initial & not to accurate fiddle around to get familiar with the engine again today but I have a bee in my bonnest to get it running nice now

repeated my compression tests with the engine cold & all cylinders are 150 odd psi stone cold!

tools I have to help me sort the issues:
gunsons
timing gun
pro gastester
colourtune if needed!
two multimeters one is a specific car related multimeter - not that I'm too knowledgeable with them to be fair as I'm a carb/dizzy man really but I need to update my skills
I have most handtools being a hobby/diy mechanic for years with old carb/dizzy cars/vans

as I say the main issue is the engine is dying when up at operating temp!

now to me it seems like the engine is either running to weak a mixture or to rich (going by my fine tuned ear) but as I haven't been to familier with fuel injection I'm not presuming nothing

when I disconnect the temp 2 sensor it runs superb????? could it be the wrong sensor???? I have the chance sunday to have a more detailed check of various items/adjustments

[Aidan]

are you disconnecting temp 2 sender when setting the timing ? and setting it at 2500rpm

then reconnect temp 2 and check that timing is advancing fully when throttle applied

spare lead is for air con that is not fitted