sponge brake

[dubslug]

hi all i have sponge brakes...
i have replaced front discs pads 2000 mile ago
rear wheel cylinders, shoes, fitting kit, handbrake cables. we have set up brakes as per haynes, bleed system using about 4 litres of fluid, master cylinder changed and bleed, clutch bleed.
pedal travels almost to floor, pump it and its fine again, reverse and its travel is huge, it seems hit and miss if its going to be good pedal or sponge. handbrake is shocking too but i think i need to check and adjust properly as we did that with van on floor(jacking point gave way requiring welding which has been done)
any ideas please

[Smosh]

I think this is usually caused by air trapped in the brake system.

I havent bled the brakes on a T3 previously but I had the same issue on a mini. It was a simple fix, you just need two of you or really long legs, or a one way valve.

Someone will be along shortly and will be able to tell you the correct order to bleed the valves in.

[dubslug]

thanks for reply, we have used over 4 litres of fluid so far and its all new thats coming out. we bleed as per haynes with two of us, thanks for reply

[lloydy]

If you don't have the rear brakes adjusted up right,( and it sounds like you haven't due to the handbrake being rubbish) the brake pedal will have a lot of travel and feel awful.
Personally before you go to far in trying to sort anything, you need to sort the rear brakes, then the handbrake. Then see how it feels.

[dubslug]

hi lloydy, we adjusted the shoes as the book says, he handbrake we didnt do, my jacking point failed so couldnt get both wheels off the floor safely. as we changed the handbrake cables we loosened off the adjuster under neath the van. a loosened hand brake cable wouldnt affect pedal travel would it, under driving conditions?
im hoping to strip the brakes down tomorrow again. mrs is giving me so much grief now

[nevill3]

When your bleeding the front brakes its VERY important to make sure you are using the top bleed nipple and not the lower one (which is for draining the calipers) You will not get satisfactory results if you use the lower nipple, air will be trapped inside the caliper and the brakes will be spongy but will harden up after a few pumps of the brake pedal, only to go spongy with long travel after a few moments of not pumping. I do not touch the brake pedal whilst bleeding I just let gravity do it's thing. I open the bleed nipple with a length of clear hose attached running into a glass jar I watch for the bubbles to stop and close the nipple and move onto the next wheel, starting with the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and working forwards. Slow but sure and perfect results every time.

[dubslug]

yes top nipples were used i fitted new ones as i had read about the bottom ones. i was cracking the nipple as old man pushed pedal down, locked of-each time till fluid was clear and bubbleless. to me its acting as if it has air in it but i cant see how its possible with amount of fluid we pulled through

[dubslug]

is there any benefit to doing this with engine running??

[nevill3]

I presume you were watching the level of fluid in the reservoir to make sure it didn't get too low. You could try it without pressing the brake pedal, just attach a clear hose and crack open the nipple and let gravity slowly pull the fluid through, each time the brake pedal is released in the other method air will be sucked back into the caliper if you are not quite quick enough with the spanner on the nipple.

[dubslug]

yes the old man watched it. he held pedal down till i had locked it off, ow comes itfeels fine stationary but not once using it?