T25 NEW ENGINE?

[martin.f]

hi, can anyone help please. we have a 1985 t25, 1.6 diesel, water cooled van. we need a bigger engine, can anyone tell us which to go for, where to find one and roughly how much to pay. i have looked through the archives and it is all a bit technical!

[keith]

Assuming you want to stick with diesel

You could go for a 1.6 td....for a bit more poke. 400 quid for the engine....about the same for fitting

Or a 1.9 aaz for a fair bit more poke ....budget 1000

Or a 1.9 non turbo.... Easier to fit...budget 800

Or a 1.9tdi for quite a bit for poke...budget 3k to 4 k

The aaz and tdi will both benefit from a gearbox mod to raise the cruising speed for given rpm.....tdi moreso.

As for who.....i suppose a lot depends on where abouts you are.

[martin.f]

Thanks Keith, that is really helpful, I will print off and show our garage. When you say 1000. budget for the aa, would it be the similar price for the fitting as the previous one? We have already spent over a thousand on this one having it re-bored (might be spelt wrong) when really we should have been advised that the engine just wasn't big enough! We are frightened on spending something like 2K on a 1.9 non turbo just to find out we should have gone for the Tdi.
Appreciate the advice. Thanks

[keith]

I reckon you could pick up a decent aaz.....from something like a golf, passat etc of the right era....for about 400 ...someone who knows what they are doing should be able to fit it for about 500 i would think....100 quid for bits.

Where in the country are you.

[keith]

This is a great starting point...taken from Brickyard forum.

AAZ upgrade quick guide.

1.6TD (JX) to 1.9TD (AAZ)

Strip AAZ to bare engine, head and block, good time to replace cambelt and tensioner and check crank pulley and crank for wear.[see note]
Fit JX sump and oil pick up pipe without windage tray [see note]
Use AAZ injection pump, modify throttle linkage.
Use T3 Diesel (CS,KY, JX) throttle cable.
Small hole in engine lid, probably about 15cm's by 10cm's and about 15mm increase in height.
Use JX exhaust manifold.[see note]
Use JX exhaust.
Use AAZ turbo, change attitude to suit JX exhaust manifold.( you can use JX turbo if required)[see note]
Manufacture oil feed pipe for turbo.
Use JX exhaust and mounts.
Use T3 Diesel clutch.[see note]
Fit spigot shaft bearing to crank (Part of Brickwerks kit)
Fit block bung to back of cylinder block (Part of Brickwerks kit)
Fit "Cut to length" Oil return line from turbo to sump (Part of Brickwerks kit)only for KKK turbo's, not Garrett)
Use JX airbox and piping to turbo, relocate airbox to behind LH light.
Use JX water housings for cylinder head.
Use AAZ waterpump to head rubber hose as the JX one isn't long enough, block the spare end.
Use AAZ inlet manifold, JX and AAZ ports are different shapes, if you match port the JX manifold to suit the AAZ head then in my opinion you aren't left with sufficient material to create a good seal.
Use which ever alternator/belt set up suits you, they are interchangeable.
Use (KY,CS,JX) Dipstick [see note]

1.6 D (CS) 1.7D (KY) to 1.9TD (AAZ)

As above but you will need to buy a complete 1.6TD (JX exhaust)
You will need a 1.6TD (JX) sump.
You will need a 1.6TD (JX) exhaust manifold.
You will need a 1.6TD (JX) airbox and piping.

Petrol to Diesel.

Pitfalls outweigh benefits, all bolt together but unless you have a engine bay to strip everything from it won't be a nice job, I have seen far too many done my Sunday Morning man, really really badly. some by so called professionals and some done by those that should know better.
You will also need engine bay wiring loom and a Diesel instrument cluster.
Buy a LPG gas conversion, it will be cheaper and easier.

Notes.

Using the original AAZ exhaust manifold and turbo in it's AAZ orientation results in oil not being able to drain from the turbo, engine will run on it's own oil and self destruct, A lesson I have learned from the mistakes of plenty of others.
Using the AAZ turbo and exhaust manifold will mean you have to make an exhaust to suit, any smaller diameter of the exhaust pipe will result in high EGT, therefore a shorter engine life and less performance.

Once done, fit new oil filter, fill engine up with 4.5l of oil and run, once run then re-mark dipstick to new level. If you don't the level maybe too high, the engine may smoke or run on it's own sump oil, and possibly self destruct.

215mm clutch will be fine for standard AAZ in a T3, if you start tuning, then it won't be strong enough and you will have to find an alternative method. The clutch from any of the T3 Deisels will do, they are the same.

Don't use the windage tray. It increases the width of the gasket as it were, then when you try to get the bottom bolts from bellhousing to sump they won't line up.
Leaving the sump loose while fitting the engine, I don't see how that would work as the sump is still that little bit further away from the engine.
If you insist on fitting it then you will have to modify it to fit the pick up pipe, then increase the diameter of the holes in the bellhousing that the mounting bolts pass through.
If you don't then I should imagine that it will crack the sump when tightening and putting unnecesary stress onto the sump.

The AAZ has problems, big problems, when buying an engine it is essential that you check theat there is no movement between the crank pulley and the crank. The design of the pulley assembly was such that after a period of time the bolt would work loose, the pulley would move on the crank and damage the pulley and the crank. If the crank is damaged then it is scrap, and if the crank is scrap then generally the rest of the engine is too as repairing or replacing the crank is not a cheap, or easy job. VW realised there was a problem and modified the pulley bolt to stop this hapenning but there are some unmodified ones out there so beware.

There are 4 different injection pumps fitted to the AAZ, some have EGR, some have NoX reducing measures also.

Doing the conversion with the info above will result in haveing 2 non genuine parts, the oil feed (Which some people just bend a 1.6D one into place ) and the oil return line from the turbo (JX one is too short)
If you do it any other way you will have to make an exhaust, and if it breaks you won't be able to just buy one over the counter. Using as many parts from VW means when something breaks you can buy said part and not have to mess around bodging.

If you are going from 1.6TD because you don't have enough power, then fix the JX first, chances are you don't like it because it's not been maintained properly, a properly maintained JX is a good engine with more than enough power for most people. Remember tappets are manual and not hydraulic and rarely get set, once checked they generally have very little gap, hence not seating properly, low compression - low power, valves get hot as they are not closing enough to transfer the heat away from them to the head so worst case is burnt valves, not good.

A AAZ is only 5bhp up on a JX, but it does have slightly more torque.

Use this info at your risk.

[keith]

This is even better as a place to start...

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpec ... diesel.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[martin.f]

Aw Keith, thank you so much. I will print off and show garage. We are in Manchester

[martin.f]

Getting a little fed-up of Maisie!!!

[discipleofsketch]

Thanks Keith, that is really helpful, I will print off and show our garage. When you say 1000. budget for the aa, would it be the similar price for the fitting as the previous one? We have already spent over a thousand on this one having it re-bored (might be spelt wrong) when really we should have been advised that the engine just wasn't big enough! We are frightened on spending something like 2K on a 1.9 non turbo just to find out we should have gone for the Tdi.
Appreciate the advice. Thanks

Having gone from a 1.6d to a 1.9d (non-turbo 1Y) myself, I can confirm that the 1.9 is a usable improvement, but you might still spend your time wishing you had gone for a TD or Tdi. I'd say if your 1.6 is working, carrying on using it until you can afford one of those.

Having said that, the 1.9 1Y is by far the easiest conversion form a 1.6d as most parts swap straight over. I'd also say look out for a T25 specialist or at least someone who likes doing VW engine swaps, or the labour costs might go through the roof!

[colinthefox]

So far no-one has mentioned the AEF 1.9D non turbo as fitted to VW polo or Skoda Felicia.

It's as cheap and easy a conversion as you'll get, and these engines are very common. I've done it on my van and we're very pleased with the improvement.

Have a look at http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/16cs- ... 5.html?KW=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[martin.f]

Thanks Rick, but no , the 1.6 isn't working for us. Set off to Norfolk on Sat, only managed 45 miles and it gave up. Came home on the back of an AA low loader - again. Off to Spain tomorrow (on a plane).

Thanks Colin - Made a note of that.

Does any one know of a T25 mechanic in the Manchester area? Please

[keith]

when you get back you should talk to Mario at MV Engineering in Telford.

if it runs on Diesel then I personally think he's your man.
01952581818

[ajsimmo]

There is another option that nobody has mentioned yet - the 2.0l petrol (AGG 8v) from a Golf GTI.
It would give you the extra power you are looking for, be more refined, quieter, more reliable, and if you fitted an LPG conversion too it would be as cheap to run as the diesel.
This would be a very easy swap as it uses all the peripheral parts (including sump, engine mounts, flywheel etc) from the 1.6D and will fit in exactly the same way.
You are only missing a couple of things - an electric fuel pump (easily obtainable) and an exhaust. (Last one I fitted was into a Syncro, I used all brand new exhaust parts, a custom manifold adapter flange from Germany and JX full system from Poland (cheaper than a used system over here!) - fitted perfectly and sounded superb!)
As said above, going 1.9 N/A (1Y or AEF) is one of the easiest swaps, and therefore the cheapest in labour terms. You have (almost) all the bits you need already.
If you decide to go AAZ (1.9TD) there's a few more things to bear in mind, eg you will need to find a JX sump as yours will not have the oil return fitted.

[discipleofsketch]

Thanks Rick, but no , the 1.6 isn't working for us. Set off to Norfolk on Sat, only managed 45 miles and it gave up. Came home on the back of an AA low loader - again. Off to Spain tomorrow (on a plane).

Oh no! My 1.6 was terribly underpowered, but it was at least reliable. I just didn't feel safe when I suddenly found myself doing 40mph on motorway inclines, so it had to go...

[martin.f]

Hi all,
Thank you all for the advice. The mechanic says that the engine blew a seal because there is something wrong with the GEARBOX !!! It's still sat on the drive . Hope we get this sorted before next summer...........