Engine change advice

[Logivan]

Hi 80/90ers,

Sadly my first post is one of woe, so I'm after some advice due to my first attempt at working on these vans.
Got an '89 t25 camper with the watercooled DG engine that has sadly been overheated so many times we've choosen to simply replace the engine. All new parts have been sourced for a full service of the replacement engine and an entire exhaust system as the old was is looking very sorry for it's self.

So with that in mind it poses a few basic questions:
1: Is it best to remove both engine and gearbox as one or is dropping the engine and leaving the box in easier?
2: aside from the oil filler neck and obvious (unplumbing fuel, water, power, throttle and exhaust) is there anything to be looked out for? this advice may change if the box has to be removed too (shifter, drive shafts, clutch cable, anything else?)
3: Not having easy access to an engine crane I was thinking of using 2x4 over the access hole with a pair of decent rechet straps and a jack under the engine. Any tips for this very DIY method? both for removal and install.

my background is very mechanical with any tool needed on hand (except crane) but I'm 100% new to these campers.

Thank you in advance for any advice you could help us with.
Pete.

[kevtherev]

1. both
2. leave every thing on.
3. ramps and lower it all on a trolley jack, onto a skateboard with an assistant

[Ian Hulley]

If you're on your own leaving the box on is easiest as it acts as a second pair of hands when you come to lift the engine up as the nose mount supports that end and it's not too heavy to lift the nose mount up and slot the bolt through.

Ian

[Logivan]

thanks for the replies guys.

yeh got a skateboard to hand so will get that involved.
I will be doing the work on my own, so is leaving the box in the best bet?

Also on a side note, how much oil does the gearbox take? may as well give it a change while doing a decent job on the rest of it.

[Ian Hulley]

Also on a side note, how much oil does the gearbox take? may as well give it a change while doing a decent job on the rest of it.

~4.5 litres (actually about 4 before it runs out of the hole) of Comma SX75w/90 GL4

Ian

[kevtherev]

the box is your choice..

[Logivan]

Hey all,

Got to the half way point with very few troubles but need some more know how to keep things running smoothly.

The new engine has come with a slightly different carb' fitted (webber, fuel line enters from back not left) but the inlet manifold is exactly the same(even same part number). Also the small box of electrics that hooks up to this carb' was included. The engine had a torque converter instead of a flywheel so it must have come from an auto. Some of the water plumbing is slightly different on the new carb' too but only in position, it all hooks up to the same points on the engine/pipework. The plastic intake on the top of the carb' is the same shape as the old engine's carb'. The carb' seems to have an adaptor plate between it and the intake manifold.

So with that in mind, should I bother to swap over the carb from the old engine or leave the current one on?
Will it still run fine being installed to a manual gearbox? (with flywheel and clutch fitted and assuming this other carb' was for the auto versions)

The new engine serial number starts DG129 the old one starts DG520, they do apear to be the same engine in every external detail. does this just mean that the new engine is just an earlier unit off the production line?

[kevtherev]

all DG engines are the same

[T25Convert]

Hi,

Assuming that your engine was running fine (except for the overheating) then I would be inclined to use all the original ancillaries - that way if there are any early teething problems getting the new engine running you have removed a lot of unknowns...

The weber was an aftermarket carb, mixed reviews. I'd keep the pierberg of the original engine for now.

Flex plate needs to be removed and fly wheel fitted as you note - make sure you set the end float accuratly at this point. You will also need the bearing that goes inside the end of the crank to support the gearbox inout shaft (spigot bearing?) as the auto wouldnm't have needed this. Assuming you set the end float there will be no problem running it a s manual.

I used the same home made strap and wood system to get my engine in, and woudl hire an engine crane next time i do it - is a pig if you don't have a helper! HSS do one for £45 for the weekend which would be plenty long enough.

Good luck!

Alex

[itchyfeet]

WHS^^ use the origional Pierburg carb. I think you will find the inlet manufold with the webber has been modded so swap the whole manufold and carb is best, just make sure you don't drop anything down the inlets, rags in holes while you work will be your friend.

As said when you swap over the flywheel you need to check end float, to set the end float on the crank you may well need different thickness shim you can buy these from VH heritage, you would be foolish not to chage the crank to flywheel oil seal, o ring and felt ring also.

[Logivan]

Thanks for the information guys!

The next round of parts turned up this evening so I'll get cracking with it in the morning.
I'm not in the UK so hiring an engine crane isn't an option here, well not at a cost that wouldn't be cheaper than buying one.

End float.
This is not something I've heard anything about, only times it has ever popped up on other engines (non VW) was doing the crank bearings and controlling the forward/back movement with 2 shim bearings. Could you point me in the direction of some further info' please?

Opps didn't even think about the spigot bearing, not normally something that can be removed from the crank without damage. Hmm may have to wait even longer for even more parts now, DOH!!

Thanks again people!

[T25Convert]

Hi,

End float is as you have experienced in the past with crank bearings. On these engines the end float is set by three shims that sit behind the flex plate / flywheel.

As you are fitting a running engine I'd fit the flywheel with the exisitng shims as they are, and check the end float (either by dial gauge, or by rigging up a reference bar and using a feeler gauge). If its less than 0.15 mm you're laughing. If its greater you need to:

Install flywheel with two shims, but without o-ring and oil seal;

Measure movement

Use this measureement minus 0.1mm to give thickness of third shim.

(these steps a paraphrased form the Bentley manual).

Sized shims are available to buy, or you may find that you have enough shims between the two engines!!

Enjoy - its not difficult just fiddly!!

Cheers,

Alex

[Logivan]

Hey, long time no post..

Ok got the engine in and almost ready to start (every finger crossed!) but have a couple of questions before turning the key.

The engine came with a Webber carb fitted and we choose to leave it on, at least till we know it works or not. It's plumbing is different to the standard carb so I'm not able to use the old one as a reference.

There is a fuel line that comes from the left/forward part of the engine bay that used to go directly to the old carb, then there is (what i assume is?) the fuel pump on the engine with 2 lines from it. one of these lines goes to the carb and the other is not connected, it is the input to the pump (only guessing as there is a fuel filter on the line with direction of flow marked on it). There is also a fitting on the carb that looks like the fuel line would go straight on and is in roughly the same place as the stock carb. Not sure weather to hook the fuel line to the carb or the pump?

Does anyone know where to find some more information about these carbs? (i've not writen down the model number, but will today)

Apart from that it's all systems go. New exhaust fits like a dream, the electrics were very simple and all the service items have been replaced.

The spigot bearing was a bit of a cockup on my part. Ordered one from JK and it turned out to be 13mm not 15mm. Stupidly I didn't test fit it on the gearbox shaft before putting it in the crank and of course was left unable to fit the engine as the input shaft was too fat for the wrong bearing.
So lost 2 weeks there waiting on a new VW bearing that was a perfect fit and didn't leave me wondering why the engine wouldn't "go home" the last mm onto the gearbox.

Also while looking over the old enigne I discovered that the thermostat didn't work at all. This must have been a major cooling issue, shame the driver didn't stop to think about it before cooking the engine multiple times for the sake of a £10 part! The water pump worked fine (electric screwdriver to test) and when removed also looked in working order and the radiator isn't blocked or leaking.

I'm going to fully rebuild the old engine over the winter, or at least start the process untill I find too much damage. Aside from warped heads, what major parts could have gone west due a (many!) severe overheat(s)? Never worked on a pushrod engine before, do they suffer damage with high temps? And is it worth buying the Haynes manual or are there better books/ebooks out there to help me with detail for the rebuild?

thanks again.

[Logivan]

oh yeah, the new engine also came with the control box that connects to the dizzy, the model number is different from the original but only by the last digit (original ends in "B" new one ends in "c"). Is this going to be an issue or shall I just fire it up and see what happens first?

[T25Convert]

The engine came with a Webber carb fitted and we choose to leave it on, at least till we know it works or not.

The weber is an aftermarket carb which people may fit instead of the pierburg. It has a few downsides, and is not generally favoured by a lot of users on here! However, as I had one on the van when I bought it and am yet to find anyone selling a decent-ish peirberg for sensible money I've stuck with it.

There is no information avaible for it really, its all a bit of trial and error!

In terms of plumbing (assuming you have the standard mechanical pump) you should have a fuel line of the right of the engine bay that pops out of eth firewall. This goes to the inlet of the pump. The outlet of the fuel pump then goes to the inlet of the carb. There is also an outlet from the carb which goes to the line going back through the firewall on the left of the engine bay. The complete circuit is then fuel comes from bottom right hand side of tank, through a filter there, into the engine bay, through the pump, into the carb and fills the float chanber. Once the float chamber is full surplus fuel is dirverted into the return line on the left of the engine bay which runs back down into the tank, to start the journey all over again.

All parts should have in/out arrows so as long as you bear in mind that the fuel comes from eth right hand side, you should be able to puzzle it all out!

Good luck, if you have any weber quiries let me know!

Cheers,

Alex