16" rear outer wheel bearing position

[jes*b]

In the course of refitting the bearing carriers with new bearings on the panel van a question has come up and i am unsure if the answer is related to the problem i am having trying to get the stub axle pressed in to one side (failed with a press today)

Anyway ... the question is about the relationship between the outer bearing and the spacer that 'floats' on the stub axle inside the carrier. Originally we pressed the outer bearing in far enough for its outer face to be flush with the small shoulder in the carrier, this allows room for the rubber seal to be located, again , on its own shoulder. However, this seems to allows a lot of room for the spacer to mover in and out on the axle, looking at this today with Paul (mm289) we think the bearing race might be better positioned pressed further in , closing down the room the spacer has) In doing this we think we hit a 'stop' - is their a shoulder in the housing that the outer bearing should be pressed to, or maybe its a taper fit? Anyway in pressing the outer bearing further in we have now created a 10mm or so gap between the outer face of the outer bearing and the rubber seal, this dosent look right either?

As an aside to this, one side has fitted together (maybe too easily?) the other side is proving difficult to get the stub axle in, I'm thinking i might need to strip them all and check the spacer and axle dimensions incase they need to go together as matched pairs as at the mo i might have a slightly larger pair and a slightly smaller pair and have them mixed - i.e. the larger spacer will fit the smaller axle but not the other way round.

[HarryMann]

This sounds very similar to the 14" setup

The spacers are not matched, neither do the outer bearings press up to a tapered shoulder.
Because the inner race of the inner angular contact ball bearing, the spacer and the inner race of the outer roller bearing together form a pack, compressed together when the shaft with its inner shoulder is tightened up with the 46mm castle nut.

The correct thinking IMHO, is to note that the inner race of the outer roller bearing, is of course 'floating' and thus the condition being looked for is where, when the pack is tightened up, that inner race is nominally running true midpoint within the rollers.

From all the 14" hubs I've put back together, the resulting outer race position (to meet this condition) seems to be not quite up to the (apparent) shoulder, and results with the oil seal just in a little from flush to the outer face of the hub.

In short , the rollers and race are wide, so the position is probably not too critical, the inner race, ring, sleeve, whatever we call it, just sliding into the position it needs to be. It can be a fiddle keeping the spacer and race in position when inserting the shaft and plenty of grease helps, until the race slips or is forced out, resulting in plenty of £$%&^!* and once the rollers get out of line, it can all get a bit fractious!

Perhaps the best way on the bench is to support the shaft pointing upwards and lower the hub down over it. In situ, the shaft can need plenty of persuasion, through the bearings, albeit minding that it doesn't hang up on the spacer.

A much bigger and common issue, certainly with 14" rear hubs, is either untoward end play and/or rock in the vertical but not lateral plane. This seeming to have a root cause in the inner ball bearing, or rather imperceptible wear in the hub bore, resulting in lack of support of the outer race.
Note that it is this inner bearing only that takes side (axial) loads from the wheel, the outer just rolling (weight) and rocking loads.

Hope that helps, everyone will have their own take on it I expect.

[jes*b]

Ok Clive so as the inner is pressed to its shoulder then the outer is pressed to pack the spacer between the two bearings, should it be clamped between them ? Paul pressed the outer in further than we first positioned it and felt it come to a stop , not quite clamping the spacer? The outer seal has its own shoulder do regardless of outer bearing position it's sits flush with housing. Maybe Simon has done a few 16's ?

[Simon Baxter]

Just same as a 14" from memory.
Nowt fancy, inner goes to a stop, usually glued in place with bearing fit.
Outer just pressed in till it's level with that shoulder thing next to it.

The little of the above I read [wall of text, I just switch off] sounded like you were making the job harder than it actually is!

[dave friday]

you could fit the shaft without the spacer and outer bearing.then fit the spacer and outer bearing?

[jes*b]

We had the bearings sites correctly so just need to sort why one axle won't press home

[max and caddy]

Make a big job out of nowt some folk....

[mm289]

Make a big job out of nowt some folk....

LoL, not a big job really but like most jobs when it is done for the first time you like to get it right.

The issue with Jes's hub is that the shaft wouldn't go through the spacer. My guess is the spacer was not sitting straight on the shaft due to the amount of free play between the spacer and the 2 bearing races (about 5-10mm). So when the shaft was initially pushed in it had not gone into the spacer square and hence was binding.

Pushing the outer bearing race in a bit further reduces the play on the spacer and potentially helps it seat properly when the shaft is introduced.

Cheers,

MM

[HarryMann]

There were at least 3 separate questions about design, intention and re-assembly in the original post...

We had the bearings sited correctly so just need to sort why one axle won't press home

it can jam on the spacer;
they vary quite a bit and some can be a very tight interference;
e.g. try once again?


Dave's recommendation is about the best of the above responses... though not practicable in every situation.
Loctite bearing fit or the goopyiest such stuff is a very good idea of the inner bearing...

Like I said, the main thing with the outer is to make sure is that the sleeve runs pretty well centred to the rollers when all said and done and the 'pack' torqued up..

NB. Remember Mark's (16" Westy) trip to Yugoslavia and the mechanic (!)who reckoned they'd done his rear bearings, no problem...
and they broke up just out of range of his AA travel insurance. ?
Lucky they'd recorded the phone call when he booked the trip insurance

[HarryMann]

Pushing the outer bearing race in a bit further reduces the play on the spacer and potentially helps it seat properly when the shaft is introduced.

Yes, I do that to help keep things in place sometimes, because it's thicker than the roller's inner race (sleeve), jams up on the rollers themselves, so be careful

It's even possible that this is why the spacer won't centre and allow the shaft through?