Syncro drivers - who's got LPG fitted?

[tforturton]

There's a couple of threads going on the other forum's at the moment, about where to place LPG tanks, and how to get the biggest ones in, but I realise a lot of it won't apply to Syncros. I'm working towards having LPG fitted, but the options seem limited for our 4x4 types. Steve at Gasure advises against underslung tanks, so I'm left with under-seat (takes up all the storage), or spare wheel (ruins my full size bed!). Are there any other options? Has anyone on here got LPG on their Syncro, and if so, what tank(s) did you use? Any regrets - would you do anything differently, knowing what you know now?

[silverbullet]

FWIW, under-seat is about the only sensible option in a Bus, the shame is that there's no full-width tank available. A 4-hole one, ~1500 long x 270 dia would fit the bill nicely but no-one makes that size and when I enquired earlier in the year the small batch/one-off cost was about £300, UK made.
Cheaper to fit 2 smaller tanks (30 ltr wet, 270 dia are available from FES Autogas in Wales) even with the cost of 2 sets of valves and at least you would get the benefit of a bit of baffling, plus you can retain the auxiliary heater if fitted.

[..lee..]

been through this with my blue van. to get any sort of range on lpg you will loose loads of storage space with a big tank. i couldn`t afford that with the family so it was tdi for me. almost doubled the range and no loss of space.

[Aidan]

Edna is gassed, 63 litre upright torroidal behind the bulkhead and kitchen/storage built around it, also have 15kg leisure tank on same filler, works for me but I was transferring a system I already had from another van that had already paid for itself - 54 litre fill = 200 ish miles range
tbh if I was starting with a new van I wouldn't bother, the cost of petrol is the cost of ownership, van is appreciating in value so fuel and basic maintenance is all it costs to run, you have to do a fair mileage to get back the £1k installation cost, might as well just buy petrol
just mho, but I wouldn't convert a perfectly functional wbx van to diesel for all the tea in china, but I do gearbox work for those who want to, but my argument is for the cost of the conversion you could buy enough petrol to get to china and beyond and that sounds like a plan

[syncropatrick]

I've got LPG in mine with DJ engine. 100l Stako 4 hole tank across rear bulkhead taking 3/4 of the width. Fitting RnR bed over it was a pain as bed moved forwards by 45cms and bed base ended up ~10cm above engine level. If it's just me in the van I can fit in, but with two of us plus possessions the loss of storage space is felt keenly.

Since an emergency engine swap 18 months ago I haven't bothered reconnecting it to current engine. I do less than 5000 kms a year in it so can't really cost justify an installation from new. Some of the parts of the original install meant the air intake was compromised, so If I re-fitted it I'd want to buy new parts and the cost might not be justifiable. I did enjoy the cheaper running costs and extra range if both LPG and petrol tanks were used, but on balance was it worth it? I do wonder why I'm still lugging it around. Jury's still out.

[ninja.turtle007]

been through this with my blue van. to get any sort of range on lpg you will loose loads of storage space with a big tank. i couldn`t afford that with the family so it was tdi for me. almost doubled the range and no loss of space.

The exactly same reasons I went TDI. It'll take 3 years in total to pay for itself with fuel savings.

Huge leap in power too.

[jed the spread]

LPG = Pain in the back side IMO

Jed

[lloydy]

I've had it, was ok. But I found it a pain always looking for LPG stations due to the small tank (around 200m on a fill) if I ever got a petrol van again I wouldn't bother with lpg

[poshbuggers]

I'm fitting a toroidal under the front in a Tristar spare wheel cover. Might only use it for cooking etc but it's practical to fit one there for driving too.

Andrew @ The Camper Shack has already done a few like this.

[Walrus]

Mine is fitted under the seat; 70l, 200+ mile range, it was fitted before I bought the van. It's offset to the drivers side so I still had (just) enough room to fit a Propex heater next to it. It's given me no trouble, and made the running cost more affordable.

The only place I've had problems getting gas is South Wales, and at those times I'll run it on petrol. I've got a big list of LPG stations programmed into my TomTom as points of interest (from Shell & Autogas).

[Aidan]

Mine is fitted under the seat; 70l, 200+ mile range, it was fitted before I bought the van. It's offset to the drivers side so I still had (just) enough room to fit a Propex heater next to it. It's given me no trouble, and made the running cost more affordable.

The only place I've had problems getting gas is South Wales, and at those times I'll run it on petrol. I've got a big list of LPG stations programmed into my TomTom as points of interest (from Shell & Autogas).

good to hear Beaker's behaving ok and the propex space worked ok

[tforturton]

Interesting that Walrus had problems finding LPG in South Wales, cause that's where I live. Cardiff is okay, with half a dozen or so places, but I admit it does get scarcer once you move out of the cities.
Anyway, I've emailed back and forward with Steve (Gasure) about possible locations, and we've even discussed Chuckle-bus-tom's twin underslung tanks, which Steve doesn't recommend, but will fit if required. Spare wheel shaped tanks are a no-no on quality grounds, apparently, though they are available from other suppliers. Otherwise it's a smallish tank (or two) under the rear seat. Anyway, plenty of food for thought, but no definitive answer.
From my point of view, the thought of cheaper fuel makes this an attractive move, despite the initial cost. Okay, I don't do mega-miles in the Syncro, but it doesn't half get through the petrol, and I'd like to lessen the blow.
At the current price, petrol is about £6 a gallon, and you get about 20 miles out of one of those. So £1000 spent on fuel would take you around 3333 miles - hardly all the way to China. Less that six months motoring, I reckon. It's got to be worth thinking about.
It's strange - if you go over to the general forum, the consensus there is definitely to fit LPG, and to fit the biggest tank you can find, whilst on the Syncro forum, opinion is all a bit lukewarm. Strange. Is it because it's harder to do?

[Aidan]

I've been running lpg for 9 years and in the real world I find you'll save about 10-12p/mile running on gas £1000.00 /10 = 10,000 miles, ie to China, only once you have paid for the conversion are you actually saving anything really (same argument with converting petrol to diesel, but better diesel mpg -rather than worse with lpg means- better saving rate) so unless you do decent annual milage and are keeping the van for a good while then I'd think long and hard about it - nothing is for free you still have to pay for the fuel to go the 10,000 miles to get the saving after that, so 500 litres of lpg at say 80p/litre (yes I know some people pay a fair bit less than that, but that's the rate round here at the moment, and chances are by the time you've done those 10,000 miles the fuel cost will have gone up so is a fair average price for the next 12+ months) is £4000, so you have to spend £5k to actually start saving money (equivilent to 16000 miles of petrol at £6/gallon) - that's what people forget and why I'd personally think long and hard about converting an unconverted van
Walrus bought Beaker from me after I'd owned it and converted it (when the conversion cost was sub £700) 4 years and I had been doing 10-12k miles per annum so the system was paid for and saving money
extra weight, more to go wrong, more to service and loss of internal space for a small saving in fuel costs over quite a long period of time - and noone seems to be installing new lpg pumps and a lot are taking them out as they come to the end of their working life, it's easier to just have petrol and diesel and maybe super fuel grades than it is for most garages to have lpg hence it hasn't really got a lot more available in the last 10 years and the price has gone up so much more proportionally than petrol - it was 27-35p a litre 8-9 years ago when petrol was 75p/litre, as the differential has come off (it was 16p/litre back then and has been reducing by around 3p everytime the govt hikes fuel costs) the cost of lpg has become less attractive, the government is no longer convinced of the green benefits and so don't subsidide the conversion/dual fuelling of new cars = less users = less availability (or no better availability) - depends where you go, the more lovely (ie unpopulated) the harder the fuel is to find generally, driving an extra 30 miles to find lpg to save 10p/litre doesn't often make economic sense
And no one is going to recommend sticking anything under a syncro as it'll compromise the off road ability , get in the way for maintenance etc..and be vulnerable also there are rules in lpga code of practice about ground clearance and the like hence Steve won't want to do that, and running multiple tanks isn't ideal either because the pumps rely on backpressure to switch off the filling pump so unless the two tanks fill evenly you'll find one full, one not, some overflowing - I have two tanks and had to get Steve to fit an isolator for the leisure tank as I was experiencing issues with filling when they were both interconnected due to the size difference

[tforturton]

Thanks for that Aidan. A mammoth post, but it does give me a lot of info. It's just that when I'm standing there, handing over a small fortune at the pump, I wish I was paying LPG prices. Not as easy as that, though, is it?
Ah well, I'll mull it over a bit longer....

[silverbullet]

FWIW, I think that the biggest obstacle is coming to terms with the compromises resulting from any conversion. IMHO if you're going petrol/LPG dual fuel for all it offers - relatively cheap conversion, low unit cost of fuel, refinement, environmental benefits* etc - then you have to consider the petrol tank as secondary i.e ditch it, fit a smaller petrol tank as a back-up and reclaim the volume lost and look at modifying metal work to accommodate the tank as it's the one system component that can't be re-shaped!
Getting it right does not come cheaply and thinking in conventional ways will not get the desired end result. Look at other vehicles for inspiration to see how they work it out in a non-VW Transporter way. Take off the blinkers

*so often overlooked. It's not all just about £ and p.

PS I've never argued against derv for ultimate range, but in most of the civilised world how far are you really from a fuel station. Honestly?