Stud conversion, extended bolts and securing new wheels

[aahyoo]

Afternoon all,

I have recently bought my '87 Transporter, which is currently running on steels and is not lowered and I would like to fit Borbet A's. I have been reading and am just looking for clarification really..

The wheels I would like to fit are 7Jx15 H2 are 5x112 with ET35 and have a 10mm wheel bolt hole... all good so far I hope...

Q1. Am I right in thinking I need 35mm Tapered seat M14 bolts for the front (4 plus a locker on each side)...

Q2 ...and then need to get the rear studs extended by 10mm, before replacing original nuts (4 plus a locker on each side)

Q3.. If this is right is there anywhere anyone can recommend to get the studs changed? (I am in Hartlepool)

Tyres are currently 205 55 15 88v but I will be changing these for 205 65 15 97v once all other work is done.

Any help straightening this out in my mind would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers

Ru

[kevtherev]

Have you read through the information on the club wiki..top right of the page... under wheels and tyres.
There are rules and you seem to be unaware of some.

You will need to change ALL the standard studs and bolts to longer studs.
The nuts should match the rim seats
the centre hole should be big enough for the speedo cap
10mm bolt holes are too small..that says they're off a car to me... remember your van weighs nearly two tonnes, please be mindful of this. Are the rims up to carrying the weight?

[aahyoo]

Thanks Kev,

Sorry - not entirely sure how I've broken the rules?! Should I not have started a new thread? Please explain.

I've trawled through the wiki and numerous posts and conversations and your comment above is the first I've seen with reference to any required or recommended bolt hole measurement... The wheels had previously been fitted to a C class Merc (approx 1 1/2 Tonne) so offset and centre bore match up to what the wiki says is required (I consulted it before purchasing..)

Are you saying I need studs on the front and not just longer bolts?

Rim seats are tapered so bolts and nuts (or just nuts) will be purchased to match - I'm just trying to get it right first time by checking and checking again.

Cheers

Ru

[kevtherev]

Thanks Kev,

Sorry - not entirely sure how I've broken the rules?! Should I not have started a new thread? Please explain.

I've trawled through the wiki and numerous posts and conversations and your comment above is the first I've seen with reference to any required or recommended bolt hole measurement... The wheels had previously been fitted to a C class Merc (approx 1 1/2 Tonne) so offset and centre bore match up to what the wiki says is required (I consulted it before purchasing..)

Are you saying I need studs on the front and not just longer bolts?

Rim seats are tapered so bolts and nuts (or just nuts) will be purchased to match - I'm just trying to get it right first time by checking and checking again.

Cheers

Ru

I meant rules of what wheels fit
M14 Studs all round are required.. because you don't know how long they have to be, and getting a longer tapered bolt is somewhat difficult.
The stud nuts are available from brickwerks as are the self cut to your length studs.

I repeat your van weighs nearly two tonnes.. and 2.5 tonnes fully loaded... It's your call, I'm just pointing out the discrepancy and hoping that common sense tells you something. I've never heard of a wheel collapsing, but who would admit it

the M10 bolt hole in the rim is too small to accommodate the bigger stud, they will have to be drilled out.in my opinion that is weakening the integrity of the rim. Can you do this accurately?
And the center hole is that big enough?

I don't want to be a doom and gloom bringer, but if I just said yeah thats fine, chuck 'em on they'll be right. I couldn't sleep

[aahyoo]

Ha - good! Thought I was being un-pc for a minute!

Cool, so it's a stud conversion to be done then - thanks for explaining why - makes sense now.

Centre hole is big enough and bolt holes are M14 already - I was referring to the depth of them being 10mm when working out how long the studs will need to be.

I'm gonna get the conversion done and do some more homework on the wheels I have and their load capabilities before deciding whether to fit or start again with something else.

Thank you again Kev, that's twice today you've helped me - I'll set 3 new questions for you tomorrow

Cheers

Ru

[aahyoo]

Just been looking at what I'm going to need for the stud conversion and longer studs and have found the following contradiction between here and Brickwerks...

Club 80-90:
5. Push new stud in from behind, slide a suitable spacer over it (e.g. large nut or even two) and pull into place with a backwards nut

Brickwerks:
IMPORTANT - Under no circumstances should the old wheel studs be knocked out in situ and new studs pulled through by screw force alone, this will destroy the threads on your new studs, and when you try to return them as faulty I will know exactly what you have done and laugh at you!

...think I may just pay someone to do it for me!

[kevtherev]

When I changed mine, I knocked the old ones out, them knocked the new ones through ensuring the splines engaged with the corresponding splines in the rear hub.
the fronts are easier but just make sure they are thread locked in and tight


Do the fronts first...Then,If you can get the rear hub nut off then the jobs nearly done.

[California Dreamin]

Some info....

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpec ... ltwhls.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found this info which says Radiused nuts and not tapered...PLEASE CHECK.


http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/borbe ... 23754.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

[aahyoo]

Thanks for that Martin

I originally checked by holding the edge of a piece of paper to the seat - and there are no gaps so I read that as they were tapered - however on closer inspection, and the certainty in that second link I am seriously questioning myself... I'll have to have another look perhaps with playdoh in hand..>!

JK delivery is due in about an hour with the tapered nuts....! Hope they're not going to go to waste.

[kevtherev]

Just my opinion..
Try and use a quality supplier for engineering parts...like Brickwerks.
JK doesn't even appear on my radar for parts..

[California Dreamin]

Thanks for that Martin

I originally checked by holding the edge of a piece of paper to the seat - and there are no gaps so I read that as they were tapered - however on closer inspection, and the certainty in that second link I am seriously questioning myself... I'll have to have another look perhaps with playdoh in hand..>!

JK delivery is due in about an hour with the tapered nuts....! Hope they're not going to go to waste.

Really subtle difference only obvious when you see them side by side, make sure you are right, as the wheel nuts won't be secure otherwise.

Martin

[aahyoo]

I've checked again and am convinced they're Tapered....

That said I have chickened out and my local tyre shop have offered to do all the work for c.£60 - which as I was a little apprehensive about the rear hub nut, leaving the van on axle stands (which I would have to purchase) for long enough for the loctite to set (front) and wouldn't have been able to use my own driveway (sloped) seems like money well spent for peace of mind.

I will ask their opinion and order the right ones up in time if needed.

Thank you all for your input - sorry for buggin' out on this one!

[aahyoo]

Just wanted to come on and give a 'little' update on this,

I had read the wiki, paid attention to all advice and previous posts on here, Brickwerks and everywhere else I could find and went ahead and bought myself the Borbet A's I have lusted after for some time...

My initial shopping list was as follows:
Borbet Alloys (Came with flat centre caps and good but unsuitable tyres)
Conversion Studs x 10 for the front
Loctite Thread lock and seal
Locking Wheel Nuts
Split Pins x 3 (just incase)
Chrome Taper Nuts 10 + 10 free from JK ...
Rear Studs (M14 x 50mm)

I then set my mechanic about the work of the conversion assuring him all the supplied bits would enable him to complete the work...

After bending his extension bar at first attempt of trying to remove the rear hub(!) and gunning the worryingly suspicious (JK supplied) extension studs, which appeared to have about half as many splines as the ones we removed, into place. Everything seemed to be going to plan, except the inside edge of the front wheels were catching the suspension (trailing arm?) and so 5mm spacers were fitted. Next the flat centre caps would not fit, due to the closed end nuts being too long and the hubs protruding too far through the centre bore of the wheels. New tyres were fitted and closed end nuts were replaced with open end ones. Then back to Ebay for some Hex Borbet centre caps, which cost a small fortune I might add, and centre cap locking bolts in an attempt to protect my investment.

Unfortunately, when on full lock on adverse camber the (front passenger only) wheel would grind heavily, so a further 5mm spacer was trialled, and worked.

At this stage I had 10mm spacers and not a huge amount of threaded nut holding the front wheels on. Furthermore the wheels were protruding more than I wanted from the arches in the front and were lost inside the arches in the back.. action needed to be taken..

Earlier today the spacers were shared around the van so now there is 5mm on each wheel, and the wheels have been 'modified' so as to ensure clearance. At long last, the wheels fit, turn, are safe and look exactly as I hoped they were going to when I first set out to do this 3 months ago

I am still not sure where I got this wrong, but I think my issue may have been the width of the wheels I was fitting. Incidentally had they been 16"s and not 15"s there would have been sufficient clearance.

The morals of my story? Take heed of every bit of info you can find when you set out to do a 'little straight forward' job like this. Measure everything twice and have contingency planning in place. Simon at Brickwerks Is a gift to us all and has a very evil laugh and when for reasons you cannot fathom, things STILL don't work out as expected make sure you've got some spare disks for your grinder.

Thank you all.