Just a thought.........

[tforturton]

As a relative newcomer to this website (and the Syncro page in particular), I've been struck by the number of posts from people reporting the latest expensive breakage on their vehicle. I appreciate that if you have broken something major, you're going to ask for advice, but there do seem to be an awful lot of them.
But then I thought - maybe it's just the off-roaders. So here's the question: are people who take their vehicles off road more likely to suffer serious mechanical failure? Okay - off roading is bound to speed things up, breakage-wise, but would a syncro that has not been off-roaded be just as likely to lose it's VC, or shatter it's diff?
I know they're four wheel drive and everything, but were they really designed to go seriously off-road?

[jed the spread]

You have started a big old thread here mate

Personally I think they are a van that are good in difficult driving conditions If they have not been off road in the past 15 years then you take one off the road things usually give or wont engage due to them never been used for a while. Thats why you tend to get lots of the new owners on here with problems.

jed

[mrmule]

would a syncro that has not been off-roaded be just as likely to lose it's VC, or shatter it's diff?

I suspect it'll last longer.

I know they're four wheel drive and everything, but were they really designed to go seriously off-road?

I thought the same mate. The syncro came a lot later on in the T25 iteration in the form of the 14 inch, and then was improved on in the form of the 16. Now there are things you can do to make it even more capable. But my stance is that it wasnt built for serious recreational off roading. Just look at the overhang infront of the front axle and similarly on the rear...

The key however IMHO, if you drive it mercilessly, even the most purpose built off roader will age and break down prematurely. So car sympathy will play a large role in our T25 syncro longevity.

[B.J]

It's wear and tear on lots of things syncro or not and if it's not set up right more things are going to break. If you're going to buy one you should know what you are capable of maintenance wise and buy accordingly.
If you're not mechanically inclined then a wonky van is going to cost you lots of£££££££

One of my criteria was to find a van with as much well done mechanical work as possible which I think a got apart from a bad VC(kind of).
I found a van with a recently rebuilt gear box by Aiden and a AAz fitted by the previous owner and a de-coupler from the previous previous owner.
I would say beware of vans with de-couplers unless you know for sure that vc is tip top or recent or knock £500+ off the price.

Also, don't buy anything shiny unless you see rebuild pics or it's original shiny

[hugomonkey]

then again isn`t tarmac a lot less unforgiving on a diff and a vc than mud, gravel or grass????

[tforturton]

But are the majority of breakages occurring due to off-road use, or are they just as likely to happen in normal use?

[..lee..]

well my engine didn`t let go doing the bomb hole on strata but did let go bringing the family home from west wales. so its not all about off roading. if things are in good condition then you have to be pretty rough to break them but if they are worn atall off roading them will show there weaknesses.

[mrmule]

well my engine didn`t let go doing the bomb hole on strata but did let go bringing the family home from west wales. so its not all about off roading. if things are in good condition then you have to be pretty rough to break them but if they are worn atall off roading them will show there weaknesses.

The VC fails more progressively though.

I Had an rs6 (well two actually) whose gearbox 'let go'. I did a track day in it, but it didn't fail then, it failed a Few weeks later. Did the track day cause it? Possibly not as it still worked faultlessly for a good time afterwards. But it almost undeniably contributed to its demise.

So perhaps off roading won't cause component failures at the time, but it must cut their life span.

Personally it doesn't bother me. I know there'll always be a replacement for a part out there in one form or another, especially with a massive following like T25s.

Bring on the rough stuff

[mrmule]

But are the majority of breakages occurring due to off-road use, or are they just as likely to happen in normal use?

Also I have never broken a CV joint in my ej25 tin top fully laden and giving it some welly. But I gather it's quite a usual occurances for syncros off road. Why might that be then?

[v-lux]

Why might that be then

Most commonly a hole or tear on a cv boot, once any mud/silt gets in there it'll fail rapidly.

Often this due to holes that have occurred through normal use, occasionally something offroad might cause a hole/tear. If they are water tight then they don't tend to fail.

Now and then torque forces can push them beyond thier limits, but this only when being pushed to limits, in which case then you've usually accepted the outcome before attempting whatever you're trying to drive through.

[syncropaddy]

The syncro came a lot later on in the T25 iteration in the form of the 14 inch, and then was improved on in the form of the 16.

That is debatable .....

The T3 Syncro Van is a utility vehicle with some off road capability. Nothing more, nothing less except it was designed and manufactured by the best off road specialists in the business and VW. It just so happens that the end result is surprisingly good overall but fails a little in a few areas. I reckon it was actually too good for the people that bought it and the markets it was intended for. Today's 4motion T5 is much more market focused that the T3 ever was but thats what marketing people are for.

[Al Housman]

Doesn't it depend on what you mean by 'off road'?

If you have in mind getting stuck in gloopy mud then I don't think anything less than a tractor will get you out! I've found mine great for 'clambering' across hard rocky mountainsides where you literally have to pick your way over really rough ground.

I use my syncro offroad virtually everyday for both work and play (mainly work) and come into contact with numerous 4x4 users who marvel at where it will go and what it can carry. Friends in Landrovers can't or won't go where I do and it's manoeuvring capabilities are awesome (just watch a Landy try to follow you round tight twisty turns-leaves them standing). Add to that the fact that you can travel pretty quickly offroad with much more comfort than almost any other 4x4.

Repairs can be costly-ask my mate who's just had to have his Landy engine rebuilt (try buying a replacement-can't be had). I don't reckon he had much change from £3000. Makes my £250 for an AAZ engine seem suddenly very reasonable!

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the development of the development of the syncro but I did come to it after using three Hiluxes for work and I would not go back.I think it's probably the best all round vehicle for agricultural and forestry work (no, I'm not referring to gentleman farmers who pose around in their Landies and Mercs!) It may well be that its off-road capability is a fortunate accident but I think not-I reckon those German/Austrian engineers knew what they were up to.

Makes me wonder why on earth they stopped making them?

[taigagreen]

Makes me wonder why on earth they stopped making them?

They were too expensive to make I think. Some info here: http://busman.be/pagina34.html

[syncropaddy]

A good spec Caravelle Syncro cost in and around the same as a Jaguar XJ6 at the time !!

[KarlT]

You can't beat a stock syncro, its when heavy camper-stuff are added, when we all add bigger wheels/tyres, More powerful engines....... Something has to give! Usually the stuff inbetween.