Gear selection problem.

[joe75]

Slowly getting it back together.

Welded up ready for fitting.


Ready for fitting.


I have noticed that the new release bearing is much thinner. (On right) I hope this does not make any difference?


All in.


New pooh plate and oil seal fitted.


After doing this I then concentrated on re-sealing and fitting the tank. Details on the end of thread below.
https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94396" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope to have the box in some time this week...

[joe75]

Ok so the box is back in and its the same I have to say I am more than a bit fed up up with it now!

My first drive down the road I had lovely smooth gear change, came to a junction, no gears . Lots of clutch peddle pumping and gear stick forcing and off again. Now the gear change is very notchy at best or no gears, it feels like the clutch is dragging not allowing gear selection; but why? If I reverse along my driveway the van shudders almost kangeroos, when I depress the clutch peddle it does not roll freely (only in reverse) like when you try to bump start a vehicle in gear, as if the clutch has not released/dragged. Going forward when I depress the clutch peddle it rolls freely, it is just hard to find the gears some times.

-I have adjusted the clutch pedal free play, there is only a small amount.
-I have inserted a socket between the slave cylinder rod and fork arm to make the arm move further (it doesn't make it move any further)
-Clutch system has been bled and bled so there is no air.
-Gear linkage set with all new bushes.
-New, fork and bushes and new release bearing in the bellhousing.
-Splines on the clutch moved freely on the gearbox splines.
-Spigot bearing ran freely.
-Clutch was not replaced but looked good?

So whats next? The only parts not replaced are the clutch and spigot bearing. Wish i had now

Ideas please gents ...

[HarryMann]

Did you use a NEW slave cylinder?

Did you take the clutch apart and cleand inspect the pressure cover and check centre-plate for distortion?

[Aidan]

Joe

I said in the second post clutch or spigot bearing, if you can get all the gears easily with the engine off but issue when engine running confirms it

there's clearly no problem with the input shaft touching out the end of the crank because I can see the lathe marks on the end of the input shaft, however the tracking on the input shaft where the spigot bearing is a bit noticeable for the mileage so I'd say the spigot bearing is the issue, with the pooh plate being incomplete the gearbox and engine would bolt up fractionally out of line which would load the bearing, cold it's fine but as soon as it warms up it slightly grabs the input shaft and transfers drive from the crankshaft so even though clutch is disengaged - with the input shaft turning you will struggle to select gears, double declutching may enable changes as you find

how much movement at the end of the clutch fork release arm when the clutch pedal is depressed, should max at around 15mm ?

[HarryMann]

with the pooh plate being incomplete the gearbox and engine would bolt up fractionally out of line

Can't see why that would be so Aidan? the rest makes perfect sense, depending how shot the spigot bearing or shaft's journal is...

[Aidan]

with the pooh plate being incomplete the gearbox and engine would bolt up fractionally out of line

Can't see why that would be so Aidan? the rest makes perfect sense, depending how shot the spigot bearing or shaft's journal is...

if there's 1mm less material between the mating faces and the bottom bolts were done up first it'll be clamped up at a very slight angle, only if top bolts where the pooh plate was were done first uniformly would there be a gap between the mating faces at the bottom and the mating faces be parallel, the pooh plate looks like it was the afn one not a jx one cut down

starter bolts are the last ones fitted normally, usually it's a case of mate the box, stick the through bolt in with nut and washer on loose to secure, relax, then do up the rest in stages isn't it, then fit starter, least that's how I do it with a diesel

[HarryMann]

I see...

must pay more attention, I sort of intuit it, but I see you do make sense, like about 0.8mm tickinessy? Def, everything matters, that's for sure

Up at Pete(Ms) recently and yet again, sod-arsing around with clutch bleeding, nada, nada, gallon of fluid later, nada, nada, recent recon slave, gotta be good to go, our guts say* > change for new <, RESULT !

* also saying time for din dins, so get it sorted

[joe75]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the input. After a nights sleep I have slightly regained my sense of humor, still all very frustrating With it being a daily driver I am under pressure to fix it or get rid of it ...

I can not get the gears with or with out the engine running. It is noticeably worse when the engine is running. I did order a new spigot bearing from the UK but the part never turned up ... Anyone know the part number so I can try and get one here? Are they hard to remove, any special tools?

Aidan the way you described tightening the bolts was exactly the way I did them ... So the pooh plate could have helped to miss aline the engine damaging the spigot.

My other thought after re-reading the hybrid clutch post was that I used a diesel T3 release bearing that as you can see in the photo below is noticeably thinner.

Maybe the fork arm can not push the clutch far enough to completely disengage it every time? Should I use the t3 release bearing or the other thicker one?

As it looks like the box will have to come out again to replace the spigot bearing I will put a new complete clutch in as well, that way everything is new. Can anyone give me a part number for a complete clutch for 1.9 Passat AFN yr 2000 engine. I did try and buy one here in NZ but as they search for parts via the license plate they really did not understand that it has a different engine, so part numbers are best. Is there any brand of clutch that is better to use?

And yes I did replace the master cylinder.

Once I have the spigot and clutch kit I will drop the bx again. At least i know what I am doing ...

[HarryMann]

. Anyone know the part number so I can try and get one here? Are they hard to remove, any special tools?

Wkipedia!

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Te ... ft_bearing

This gets me thinking its a clutch problem? Should I be able to move this arm up and down that much without any resistance?

The slave cylinder usually takes up that slack, by adjusting itself out

================

TBH, you should be able to tell by manually taking up the slack with the arm, to feel whether it is likely to be able to release the clutch, without excessive travel of the op.arm; stick a long tube on it if necessary, and see what you feel

==================

Have you measured or estimated the movement (full displacemt ) of the op.arm ?

[Aidan]

ok if there's a problem getting the gears with the engine off then it is a linkage or a gearbox issue (so the gearbox can stay in for now )

the clean magnet in the box suggests it's not a (major) gearbox problem but to check simply remove the cup from the ball (ie remove the rear bush plate from the gearbox) and try to select the gears at the gearbox by just moving the ball, with the ball fully out (natural detent position) is 3rd (backwards) and 4th (forwards), push the ball into the gearbox against the spring pressure 7mm and thats 1st and 2nd and pushed in fully is R and G, if the gears select ok at the box then it's a linkage allignment issue

to set the linkage, in neutral, loosen the pinch bolt in the middle of the linkage, have someone move the gearstick to the right, ie where 3rd and 4th should be, check the ball is fully out of the box, which it should be as the spring inside pushes it there, and then tighten the pinch bolt - ensure that the pinch bolt is vertically fitted so that it passes through the cut out in the clamp and sits against the slight cut out in the rear shaft, that prevents the shaft rotating subsequently - then check to see you can get each gear, it helps if someone can select gears whilst you lie underneath and observe (engine off of course), you should be able to see if there is sufficient movement between the three different planes

ignore the difference in the release bearings - the thicker one is the LUK, which is nvg imho, if you turn the two release bearings over and place them thrust face down you will see that they are the same thickness in the functional plane, ie the distance from the face the clutch fork touches to the face of the thrust face is the same - the thinner Sachs release bearing is the better (and original oem) one

trying to remember was your bus originally a petrol one ? If it was was the rear linkage swapped for the diesel specific version ? The rear linkage rod is different because of the shape of the engine bars and the cup is 10mm deeper than the petrol one - if the wrong one is fitted it can cause issues, I don't have a syncro diesel linkage rod to be able to photograph the difference, but if you have them side by side the difference is amazing
the 2wd linkage rods are again different to the syncro ones and are also petrol and diesel specific

if there's an issue with gear selection engine off, linkage off, at the box then Houston we have a gearbox issue

I hope to come over to NZ in April/May next year, but was hoping not to have to work on gearboxes

[joe75]

Hey Guys,

Thanks again for all your help.

Aidan.
From what i know the van was once petrol but I am not sure if the correct gear linkage was installed? The previous owner was a complete cowboy which has necessitated fixing almost every part on the van. Up to when you mentioned about the gear linkage I was not even aware of how many types there where! Being that it has run ok for 5yrs with the that gear linkage makes me think it is not the problem?

I removed the linkage rod from the box just leaving the round ball. I then tried to by hand select the gears. Some times I can get them other times I can't. I tried to video it (below) as I am not sure how hard it should be to select the gears or how much movement there should be?
http://youtu.be/v0FtC2Jqo28


In the video I am pushing the ball forward as hard as I can but it won't move. It does however move into third and forth. After I put the camera down I tapped the ball (gently) forward and it popped into gear and then i could easy select all the gears.

Soooooo I think I have an internal gearbox problem Why ...?

Really not sure what the next move is as there are only 2-3 Syncro's in the entire of NZ so finding someone to fix my box is not going to be easy.

[joe75]

Hi Guys,

After a few days, late nights and hair pulling I think I have found my problem. Like I say 'think'

Thanks to the info from Aidan I worked out my box is ok, well I think ... I can select the gears on the box via the ball and a bar for leverage. Next I looked to my linkage and found that just before the box it was getting stuck on the new bush and jamming the linkage.

trying to remember was your bus originally a petrol one ? If it was was the rear linkage swapped for the diesel specific version ? The rear linkage rod is different because of the shape of the engine bars and the cup is 10mm deeper than the petrol one - if the wrong one is fitted it can cause issues, I don't have a syncro diesel linkage rod to be able to photograph the difference, but if you have them side by side the difference is amazing
the 2wd linkage rods are again different to the syncro ones and are also petrol and diesel specific

The info above is the first time that I have known that I may have the wrong linkage, but not surprising knowing the previous owner. I have noticed that my gear linkage has always rubbed on the engine bars.

Does anyone have any photos of what makes a diesel Syncro gear linkage different to a petrol one? Even better does some have a good condition one for sale?

For now I can all gears but 2nd is still stiff, notchy and hard to get.

Can't upload photos for now but will do in course.

[HarryMann]

Paul Jebiga might have a diesel one, or Pete Pollard, or SyncrosparesUK (Devon) might. Even McGill (SyncroNutz Scotland might).
NB. Ideally you would like one with a decent bearing surface at the final (gbox end) bush. Many are now up to 50 thou asymmetrically worn - the true circular dimension as manufactured, was I believe, 20mm (2cm) exactly.

So glad you (& Aidan) have finally tracked it down, of course, in retrospect, it's all as clear as filtered water, but that was pretty murky at times back there

BTW. Did you go see the Mossie fly at Ardmore at the end of September ?

[joe75]

Thanks for your ideas about getting a better condition one. I will start to look around and put a wanted advert out. As you say the wear on the rear bush area is a problem so I want to make sure if I buy one its in better condition. I am back in the UK over Xmas for a few weeks so it could end being excess luggage

Looking back I think my problem was mixed. I think that the release bearing had come un-clipped causing poor gear selection. This in turn caused me to replace the gear shift bushes thinking they where the cause. Rather than making the shift better they made it worse. Being an intermittent problem it has been so hard to solve. I hope when I get in and drive it today that it is still working

I did not get to see the Mosquito fly, it was one of the many things I missed due to the van not working One of the chaps that worked on the plane owns the one other Syncro here in NZ. I chatted with him a few days ago and he pushed me to go back to the linkage and adjust it again. It helped that if it was the box their is know one in NZ that can work on them. If the box was the problem it would need to be shipped to the states or Australia! Kind of focuses the mind.

I have to say a big thank you to everyone on here who has helped and advised.

Thanks

Joe

[HarryMann]

I am back in the UK over Xmas for a few weeks so it could end being excess luggage

Yeh, just make sure it doesn't stick out the back of the freight hold and cause excess drag as well as excess charge