Getting it back together

Syncro 4&4 Discussion and Q&A last answered over 2 years ago.
You may also want to visit the Wiki(pedia) for a more structured index of T25 repair, maintenance, technical and ownership topics (browse for Syncro links)

You can find further syncro specific information on the Syncronauts website.

Moderators: User administrators, Moderators

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

Ha!
Been a while of distractions and procrastinations,
and the "elephant in the room" or syncro in the workshop, has called me back to lying underneath and pushing, wiggling.
In younger days I loved this sort of activity, so though its finding its way down off the bottom of to-do lists these days,
at least it brings back some nostalgia of passionate relationships with motorcars 30 years ago..

Image

The trolley/dolly performs really well, van up to get the box under, then lower van down carefully with the box in the approximate place,
watching carefully to prevent damage to the difflock actuator, the gearbox is now easily positioned to mate with the engine.
Unfortunately the shaft is not going into the clutch, and I think I know why..
When I was removing the gearbox I hadn't made the dolly so it hung on the spines a bit as it slid off, which probably misaligned the clutch.
So its off again and I will need an alignment tool, and have a look at the clutch whilst in there.

With a VW motor it would be possible to lower the back of the motor, inclining it towards the gearbox.
The Subaru and RJES mount isn't quite as flexible, but a jack under the sump tilts it just enough,
its a very tight fit though and I am very glad that the gearbox sits on its wooden box, balances well, and rests on the floor easily.

There is yet some work to do fitting the RJES exhaust box which is more complicated than I expected,
involving drilling through the cambelt cover for bolting to the block, and fabricating an ally mount to weld to the smallcar sump.

Its out of MOT now as well, spotted some rust on the bottom of a sill, just a tiny bit,
but it would be as well to cut it out and sort it properly, I dont have a mig, but do have oxy acetylene.
The heat from gas tends to burn of a lot of paint, leading to more rust attraction possibly.
Maybe I should be thinking of getting it done by someone else.. or not.
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

User avatar
hotpod
Registered user
Posts: 244
Joined: 11 Jan 2010, 10:44
80-90 Mem No: 7802
Location: St Ives, Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Getting it back together

Post by hotpod »

dont do it with oxy!
im not offering though.
i do have a clutch alignment tool though ( well its an input shaft from my splitscreen gearbox but works on my 112i )
i wont be needing it for a few weeks. if its any help come and grab it.
1992 T3 LHD Syncro 16" 4 door doka 1.9na diesel
1990 T3 LHD Syncro 16" Westfalia Joker high top 1.9 TDI
1985 T3 LHD Westfalia Joker high top 1.9 Digijet
1980 T3 LHD factory high top 2.0 Aircooled

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

No worries Dan, I wouldn't offer to repair weld a rusty motor either,
the less work like that the better,
and a responsibility as my workshop is below my house,
though I have just got a new big CO2 extinguisher..

Pete came over last night, with alignment tool and torque wrench, as he says,
"I'm not an engineer, I'm a social worker"

However I fully expected to feel pretty inadequate while he made it look really easy,
in the end it was a bit of a struggle for the both of us.

Things are definitely easier with a sociable worker, hes good at his job!
And he did get all engineer on me too, checking and rechecking tolerances,
even asked for some feeler guages, long time since I've seen those!

First we discovered that yes, friction plate had slipped out of line, so took it to bits,
checked for wear and damage, reassembled and torqued it up..

Image

But again there was just no way it was going in,
so puzzled were we that we agreed that we needed to dismantle again and try the plate on the shaft,
thinking that perhaps it had got burred, and we hadnt noticed,
but when apart the plate slid onto the shaft no probs.

Image

So we assembled and spent time aligning, rotating, clamping them closer with ratchet strap..

Image

How did it go in? It just did, at one point it just happened, result!
There really is no room to play with, I had loosened the RJES mounts and inclined the engine more,
which is easier then but hard I suppose to slide it in at an incline up and forward at the same time.

Anyhow, major thanks to Pete, my first experience of a social worker,
something that I thought you needed as part of rehabilitation or something,
and even then only if you got caught.

He's a support, and good to be with, hope to be able to support him in return.

Now there is the rest of the reassembly to work out and preparing for the MOT.
Petes also offered to lend me his MIG, that should be a bit of fun.
Last time I played with a MIG was in Berlin just after the wall came down,
there was quite a lot of military hardware floating about at that time,
4x4's a plenty, and yes MIGs too..
Thats another topic.
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

PetenAli
Registered user
Posts: 652
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 13:06
80-90 Mem No: 8569
Location: West Cornwall

Re: Getting it back together

Post by PetenAli »

rollercoaster wrote:
Anyhow, major thanks to Pete, my first experience of a social worker,
something that I thought you needed as part of rehabilitation or something,
and even then only if you got caught.

He's a support, and good to be with, hope to be able to support him in return.


A pleasure to be able to help out Tim. First time I've ever put a 'box back when the engine is already in (always worked on air cooled stuff before) so that was a learning experience. Funny things gearboxes - either they slip straight into place or fight you all the way - this one was a fighter! :twisted:
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 DJ (Courtesy of 025MOTORSPORT)

Syncronaut #171

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

The bits all seem to be back in the right places now, but it doesnt want to start.
How annoying..
Charged up battery, connections seem fine, it clicks but does not spin.

There was an earthstrap to the front of the gearbox I have re-connected, was there another I have misplaced?

It is now out of MOT and needs this bit of welding:

Image

Thats the rear of the outer sill under the sliding door,
what do people think is the best way to tackle this,
it hasnt been welded anywhere as yet and this seems to be the only rot,
so I would like to do a proper job,
hopefully not creating a larger problem later as the repair rusts.
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

Roving Rich
Registered user
Posts: 43
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 21:22
80-90 Mem No: 10828
Location: Timsbury, Somerset

Re: Getting it back together

Post by Roving Rich »

Looks like you have been having fun !
That earth strap will help. Also check the battery connections that caused it on a friends subaru. If not I wonder if the starter is jammed in the flywheel or misaligned ? If the van is on the floor you can put it in gear and rock it, or using a bit of wood and large hammer give the starter a "tap". Or just loosen it off give it a jiggle (or better still remove and clean it) and re tighten.

Looks like a big patch on the welding ? Guess if you really wanna do it properly its a new sill ! :shock:

Cheers
Rich

PS Lucky git having a workshop ! Mine is all done on the drive in the mud and cat "pooh" !
1986 Yellow Syncro Panel Van camper conversion. 19TDi 1Z Engine conversion

User avatar
hotpod
Registered user
Posts: 244
Joined: 11 Jan 2010, 10:44
80-90 Mem No: 7802
Location: St Ives, Cornwall
Contact:

Re: Getting it back together

Post by hotpod »

i might be able to pop over and advise on the welding in the next week or two if that helps.
its near the rear jacking point, so it may need some rebuilding inside too. Hopefully just a cut out and replace job though. start saving cereal packets. they are my favourite cardboard for accurate templates.
if you are feeling brave, i will bring my chipping hammer....
do you have a mig yet?
1992 T3 LHD Syncro 16" 4 door doka 1.9na diesel
1990 T3 LHD Syncro 16" Westfalia Joker high top 1.9 TDI
1985 T3 LHD Westfalia Joker high top 1.9 Digijet
1980 T3 LHD factory high top 2.0 Aircooled

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

Pete has offered his Mig on loan, but I am wondering if I might make a mess of it, be better to use someone who has a good relationship with their mig-welder and is practiced on rusty sills, preferably done this very job a few times.
I have attacked it with a hammer to get an idea of the extent of it, only evidence at first was a tiny hole that looked like a drain hole.
Jacking point seems solid.
Very busy with other work so wont get another chance to enjoy fiddling with it till Sunday earliest, and last time I was trying to get it to start I got depressed and tried to think of someone who knew about electrics that might get it going for me.
I really could do with it working, theres nothing like razzing about in it for stirring the soul, and it is my workhorse, the girlfriends sweet little Peugeot is not enjoying standing in.
If you do come over Dan, take the gearbox fitting toolbox I put together, and let me know if I can help with your van getting it back together, or is it done now?
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

PetenAli
Registered user
Posts: 652
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 13:06
80-90 Mem No: 8569
Location: West Cornwall

Re: Getting it back together

Post by PetenAli »

You can certainly borrow my MIG Tim and I'd be happy for Dan to use it. I would offer but my welding skills are limited to gash work on my old trials Beetle and I wouldn't want to do posh work on your sills for fear of making things worse (I learnt this the hard way :oops: )

Let me know when you want to borrow it and we can arrange to get it down to you. Dan passes by here fairly often I think or you can call up in the Peugeot :wink:

If you want a hand to get it started I'd be happy to help with that - reading what you've written it shouldn't be too tough to get it going (famous last words).

Pete
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 DJ (Courtesy of 025MOTORSPORT)

Syncronaut #171

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

Thanks Pete,
I would come and pick up the Mig but if someone does the welding well, they would be using a welder that they are familiar with.
Dan is not offering, he has a lot of work on and if he gets a spare moment it will be his syncro that he wants to put back together!
Next week might be good for a short session where you point out the stupid wiring mistake I have made,
could do with your torque wrench on the CVs and we can have dinner and laugh at the holes in the sill.
Once its running I will drive it to its MOT (failure) and then to someone for sill welding.

After that theres the small matter of fixing a bracket onto the back of the sump to support the RJES exhaust.
His normal method is welding a bracket he has supplied to a shortened steel sump.
I am slightly worried about welding a bracket to the aluminium smallcar sump, aluminium can crack over time,
that would maybe be a risk of losing the oil fast for a start.
Maybe if the bracket is a thick chunk of ally it stands a better chance, or I could bolt something onto extended sump bolts instead.
In the meantime I have had the longlife (Ha ha!) exhaust welded back together so I can drive the van to an MOT and welder,
and get on to fabricating the mount for the new exhaust after that
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

Here I am at the far side of spending a load of time and money..
and what does it look like?


Just failed the MOT so it looks like I'll be spending a bit more time and money..

Image

No that is not a new high top I am building onto it!

Nearside track rod end,

Image

Both bottom ball joint dust covers,

Image

The Rust that I had spotted,
Some other Rust that I hadnt...

Image

Image

Actually it was really useful that he knew where to look,
and gave me some tips on what to actively prevent as its looking vulnerable.

The new MOT standards are a lot tougher and due to become even tougher soon..

So what do you think?
Where to get the ball joint and dustcovers?

I wont be welding this myself hopefully it will be done in my workshop under my watchful eye,
where I can make sure its not only up to standard, but help out to keep the cost down,
and get plenty more advice on treating it while we are digging it out.

Vans been off the road far too long now and its depressing, even thought of selling it today..
Then a razz about in it blasted those ideas away!
Gave it a wash and even polished the inside of the windows etc, love...
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

User avatar
syncropaddy
Registered user
Posts: 887
Joined: 17 Oct 2005, 22:46
80-90 Mem No: 1019
Location: Gorey, Co. Wexford, Ireland

Re: Getting it back together

Post by syncropaddy »

rollercoaster wrote: Where to get the ball joint and dustcovers?

Baxter sells them and I always found it best to remove the lower arm complete and do the job that way. You might need a press but Ive usually managed to do without
syncropaddy


One Syncro, five Mercedes Benzs and a rocket ship

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

The lower ball joints themselves are fine I only need the dustcovers for them as they are split..
(that is now an MOT failure in itself)
Only see complete units on BrickWorks site.
Here is one I found on JK site:
http://www.justkampers.com/shop/t25/ori ... 14211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Looks right but any differences being syncro, South African, or beefier,
as in mine has the 16" Drive shafts even though its a 14"
Are they going to be quality items?
Will I need to remove the arm to pop these on, and where can I get them from?
Also the track rod end.. Baxter sells only the whole arm it seems if I want to replace the inner end,,
would it not be possible to replace just the end thats worn?
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

User avatar
..lee..
Registered user
Posts: 736
Joined: 04 Jun 2006, 22:13
80-90 Mem No: 4478
Location: llanelli, s wales

Re: Getting it back together

Post by ..lee.. »

http://www.balljointboots.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


howz zat

User avatar
rollercoaster
Registered user
Posts: 948
Joined: 10 Dec 2008, 20:30
80-90 Mem No: 6231
Location: Carmarthenshire Ceridigion border

Re: Getting it back together

Post by rollercoaster »

Cheap! and says its good..
Have you bought these?
Which ones fit our T25's?
Live as if you were to die tomorrow
Learn as if you were to live forever

Syncro Danbury 2.0 petrol AGG
 

Locked