footwell water leak

Thin bits of metal and bright blue light.

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edoh
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by edoh »

turns out to be a 'leak from above' -
strangely - in rainy stormy weather - just 1 small stream of water -comes down -
and forms a small puddle in the passenger footwell and then seems to slow down/stop?
any ideas what / where it could be coming from?
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Image
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?

might it have to be (gulp) a dash out job? - shear bolts on the steering column??? - double gulp! - or might there be some other way of checking for the source of the leak?

while i was looking under the dash - noticed a (heater?) pipe - behind the glove box - which didnt seem connected to any other pipe - just sits there - have exactly the same kind of pipe sitting under the light switches under dash on right hand side behind multi connector - again just sits there - open - should these be connected in some way? to each other? to some other point?

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as always - any thoughts - much appreciated -

edoh
:)
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gaz f
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by gaz f »

I really think it's your windscreen rubber. Mine was pooling in exactly the same way. My windscreen rubber didn't look too bad and when I gave in and decided to replace it there wasn't even any real rust under it. New rubber in and low and behold, no more leak! I did a thread on the brickyard about it with some pics...

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/fitti ... page1.html

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

I'll repost what I put earlier:

I found I only really got water on my feet when pulling off after it had rained overnight and eventually traced it to the very top edge of windscreen seal. You only need a hairline crack that you can't spot by eye and water will work its way underneath, down the sides (out of sight beneath rubber lip), down to bottom corners, accumulating and spilling inside the cab.

This puddle you're talking about tends to happen either when vehicle is parked or when driving in rain (though more when parked in my experience) and I spent a very long time indeed (2 years) trying to work out exactly how it was getting in. I tried silicon (aquatic) sealant in corners, tried sealing between rubber and glass along whole bottom edge, and still water came in if it had been stood out in the rain. Invariably its the moment you pull off the next day that it trickles down. Whats happening is the seal is effectively doing the absolute opposite of what its meant to do and diverting any water directly by capillary action to where you don't want it. If seal is new, try Tolley's creeping crack cure around the whole seal, top bottom and sides.

From Monday, my whole windscreen is coming out to finally put an end to the drip but can see it being at least a weeks work. Relying on Ronsrecord and Chickenkoop to help me get screen back in afterwards! I have new rubber and chrome insert sitting here waiting. Remember, its essential that a new seal is fitted to smooth and solid inset. If theres any rot/rust/roughness, the problem will persist.

As I said before, if it rains overnight, wipe down A pillars so they're dry. Then carefully lift seal with a knife (vertical part on pillars) and see if its wet under there....

The other thing that might give you a clue is that when you're driving at speed, rain is forced backwards along the roof and sides. When parked it just runs straight down, under the seal and, well, you know the rest.
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

Ok, heres why it leaks. I cut my windscreen rubber out this evening (and seen worse than this on other vans) and you'll see the rust in the corners. Contrary to popular belief, water doesn't force its way into these corners but through any hairline breaks in the seal from further up the windscreen. It works its way under (often right at the very top of the windscreen) and runs, completely unseen, beneath the rubber seal and down into the corners where it has nowhere to go whatsoever until it finally rots the metal and has a route to the inside. If you get several days of rain, it will really build up in there, trickling down on to cab floor. In some cases it goes under carpets so you don't always see it.

Basically I have to repair this lip by welding in new steel, repaint, refit screen and seal. It seems that VW relied wholly on the rubber (with obvious consequences) so I'll be using an extra sealer to add more protection.

Judging by number of readers on this thread, the problem is fairly widespread. Truth is, if you lift the rubber on the bottom corners and its wet under there, chances are yours is like this (or worse) underneath. Many others on 80/90 have tackled this job so nothing new here other than my own observations as to the cause. If you look at where your leak is coming from, its fairly obvious why as its the same area. Again, you'll get a greater leak when parked I find, but it can come in during torrential rain out on the road too. I'd say its an important job since leaving it causes rot elsewhere in the vehicle not to mention mouldy carpets. I've known mine squelch and lost count of the times I've had to dry carpets out - not good.

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by dj biz r »

cripes i dont like the look of that screen lip,i was having spring clean ,pulled rubbers from steps ,rusty have cut them out and now have lol air cool,whilst doing this i disscoverd water under mat drivers and passengers ,between floor and mat ,i am now keeping an eye on it asi dont know if this is a build up or from last rain .any ways cov kid gis a picture of fixed lip for ideas point the way forward my vw breadbin.oh and its not hard to cut bits out once you,ve seen it done.good luck,,. :|

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

Yep will do. Should get lip all repaired tomorrow and will post pics. The real challenge ofcourse is getting screen back in. My rubber has the chrome insert (£25 for rubber and £15 for insert - not bad) and hopefully without insert it will go in easier anyway as it provides a little more 'give'. As I say, others on here have done this job but perhaps in time this thread will roll on rather like the 'roller your van for £50' and get folks attempting this job themselves as there won't be many T25s out there that don't leak.

I imagine that when fitted new, the seal was ok, but movement and hardening of the seal eventually lets water in and I'm not convinced that the seal alone (without some kind of additional sealant) is sufficient in the longer run. I know that with earlier VW models, particularly beetles, the windscreens were designed to pop out in a serious accident and VW may have carried this across from the T2 to the T25, hard to say, but given that no one actually wants the job of taking the screen out and repairing damage, it makes sense to use a belt & braces approach to sealing it properly. I'm not sure how else it could be solved on a permanent basis. The other thing worth pointing out is that new seals with inserts may well end up in short supply in the coming years so anyone with inserts that wants to replace theirs would be well advised to order one. I could have bought a plain one but that seemed false economy since it'll probably be the last time the job is ever done anyway.
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edoh
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by edoh »

good work
keeep the forum updated
any pics and how to's and step by step instructions would be hugely appreciated - :)
Owner of a red T25 fixed hi top campervan - colour - spikey red - petrol - water cooled - 1.9 dg engine rhd - 1990 g reg n still going strong!-

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by Cruz »

CovKid wrote:And don't buy a giant bottle - false economy unless you're doing a rusty barge. Vactan only has a shelf life of one year so the £6-£7 bottle (or smaller) is best bet.
Cheers Covkid you have reminded me to put in an replacement order :ok

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

Repair of windscreen lip going very well today - just come in for much-needed cuppa)

I think the swap from CO2 to C02 argon mix helped quite a bit. Will post pics this evening but so far its been a combination of welding in new steel, and building up thin or low areas with weld. One side looks very respectable so far - you can hardly tell that it had rotted away so seal should go in easy. Also cleaned out and treated odd patches of surface rust beginning to appear in other places along lip but they were very minor indeed.

Back later....
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

Here goes:

Image

Once paint is dry, I'll wet and dry the area to help blend paint into surrounding area and it should be all ready for the screen to go back in with no more leaks. Much easier to do this kind of work with dash out, but dooable in situ (just).

The filler wasn't absolutely essential and I only applied it to make sure lip would be nice and smooth to help bed in new seal later. I really don't like using filler anywhere but in this instance it seemed a good idea. Important to feel along lip for rough edges and grind/file accordingly. The thickness of the lip should be uniform as well as being smooth.
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by dj biz r »

top job you made it look easy,,well atleast not as hard as i imagined. :ok

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

The repair work done in a day although I did have to rework some areas on the horizontal/flat plane as the steel was thin in places so built it up with weld then ground flat. There is the possibility that some screen openings will be far worse than mine, but even then, it can be built up accordingly. Other tell-tale signs are rust along your dash where it meets windscreen.

I used thicker steel when butting in new pieces simply because the lip is a seam and therefore double thickness. Those areas that only had marginal corrosion were simply ground down as much as was needed to actually reach shiney steel and then built up bit by bit with weld then ground back again to achieve desired depth and thickness. The trouble with weld is that its always harder than mild steel so takes an age to get flat again, but certainly a stronger piece of metal in those corners now and almost as good as new.

I have to say, this is one of those jobs that no one wants to tackle really but I figured if I cut rubbers away and removed glass, I wouldn't have much choice. Was grateful to Chickenkoop for dropping in this morning and pointing out that my welder had actually run out of gas! The best thing ofcourse is that I won't get wet feet any more, or a rotted floor (at least not from the top anyway). Plenty of vactan under the paint anyway :D

Job for tomorrow is to wet and dry and polish out the opening to improve the chances of a good seal when rubber and glass go back in. Looks as though B&Q gutter seal (under £4) may be the best way to completely seal afterwards.
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

Hey, MEGA update.

Been waiting around today for a helper to put windscreen in. Had a length of cheap braided washing line (£1 shop naturally) wrapped around rubber ready then thought, what the hell and gently tapped rubber into recess with rubber mallet and pulled cord from inside, couple of taps with mallet on outside - in it went!

Never seen one go so easy with just one person. Might be cos its a seal with insert but I'm off to B&Q now for some odds and ends. Heck that was cool!

:ok
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Re: footwell water leak

Post by more speed »

Did the same but my screen cracked top dead centre. :lol:
The glass is expensive to replace. :(

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Re: footwell water leak

Post by CovKid »

Fairly sure the only reason I got away with it is because its the type with the insert. Not sure I'd be quite so lucky with a plain rubber. I remember struggling for hours with a type2 years ago but this screen rubber went straight against the lip once tapped all the way around - pull round with the cord and the rubber went over without a hitch. Still a nail-biting experience but its in now. Just need to put the insert in tomorrow which will presumably lock it tight then. Also bought gutter seal which I may run under the edge of the rubber once its been on a while and settled, just to make sure everything is water-tight.
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